Which Pro-Ject tube preamp do you recommend?

Nothing catastrophic, but, the sound is likely to be bloated out of proportions, and too loud even for your volume control to handle - at nearly zero you will still want to lower it down, but won't be able to.

 

Benzion should I set PF too (if so, how) or am good to go with above manufacture settings? Thank you.

 

Start the way it is - without any jumpers capacitance is at 47 pF plus what the cables add (figure another 100 or so). To add capacitance - put jumpers on pins corresponding to 110 pF or 220 pF. - I don't think it will be necessary, though, since your interconnect cables will add capacitance to the total. Most modern MM carts should work fine with just 147 pF or thereabouts, some, more vintage ones, may require higher capacitance - read the recommended level and add, if necessary, by using jumpers (the little plastic thingies you should have in a plastic bag, that you slide onto the pins at the back).

 

Benzion very well explained !! You are like a teacher Very skilled and professional access Keep spinning.

 

How does the capacitance setting affect the sound?

 

It's basically the same as "loading" of a LOMC cart, but for the the MM. It affects frequency extension and dynamics.

 

I'm very curious about the new Pro-Ject Tube Box S2, which does away with the op-amps completely and uses transistors and tubes in its design. Their previous tube phono stages (along with Bellari and Jolida) use op-amps instead of an all-tube design, allowing budget-minded audiophiles to enjoy the magic of tubes without spending over a thousand dollars for the privilege.

I currently have a Tube Box SE II, which is the predecessor to the DS phono stage. It's an excellent unit and one that was highly praised. It sold for $700 new and I bought mine used for $350. Years ago, I owned a Tube Box II, the forerunner to the Tube Box S, and I thoroughly enjoyed it, and it responded very well to tube rolling, but I must admit that the sound is a bit murkier and "darker" than the SE II, which is far more spacious and open. As an entry-level unit it was very good and introduced me to vacuum tubes, but in retrospect, I should have picked up the Bellari instead.

The Bellari VP-129/130 remains a beloved guilty pleasure of mine. With the right system and under the right conditions, it sounds absolutely magical, like honey glaze on your chicken. It uses a single 12AX7 in the gain stage (op-amps for the output) which results in a more "tubey" sound than its peers, who use their tubes in the output stage. On many vintage records, especially ones recorded and cut with tube equipment, the sound is sublime. However, audio interference may be an issue as that vacuum tube just sticks out without any shielding. The unit that I used (purchased as a Christmas gift for Dad) was picking up radio stations in the background. Where you place your Bellari and how far it sits from other electronics is key. Also, as all Bellari fans know, the stock power supply is a joke and should be replaced immediately with a Radio Shack AC unit. This will also help out with the hum/interference issue. Oh, and this device only has 30 db gain, which means it's suitable only for MM cartridges (no, HOMC won't work). You can add in Bellari's step-up transformer to use LOMC carts, which sounds crazy good based on some needledrop recordings that I've heard.

I've never heard the Jolida JD-9, but it is highly regarded with a fiercely loyal fanbase, many of whom love to tinker with the machine by changing out the capacitors and even the op-amp chips. I don't know how it compares to Pro-Ject, but I would expect the performance is more or less equal unless you make all the upgrades.

I also haven't yet heard the Pro-Ject Tube Box DS, but I do know that it employs an entirely different circuit design than the SE II. It's much cleaner and more efficient, too, which I'm sure results in a slightly different sound. Now that it's only $400, I may have to upgrade to that model, if only to hear the difference. It might only be a slight improvement or might be significant. Based on my experience with the SE II, I would definitely recommend this Pro-Ject if you're looking for a quality phono stage.

Are there any recordings of the Tube Box S2 in action? How does it compare to its peers? Any takers? Bueller?

 

What might be the difference if it were set too high vs too low?

 

It may sound too bright or too warm, veiled, dull, shrill, or anything else. It is something you need to hear, not to read a verbal explanation of. If you have a LOMC cart and a phono with loading adjustment on the front panel - try changing the loading on the fly, as the record is playing - you will hear the difference. It will be subtle, but that subtlety is what half the "audiophilia" is comprised of.

 

I own an S2. Sounds nearly s good as the DS. Just a tiny bit noisier.

 

I have Tube Box S2 with NOS German tubes RFT ECC83 and it sound significantly better than stock JJ tubes!!
For now I´m satisfied but I played with idea try some Tung-Sol ECC83 from new Russia production line. I´m curious how it will sound. What I reed on forums it should be nice? What is your opinion?

 

I've been eyeballing the S2 myself but at that price range, can it beat a Lounge or Budgie (if I can find one)?

 

I'd appreciate some more 'settings' help. I have a Rega Ania cartridge and the Tube Box DS (I know, the Fono MC is matched, but I have the Tube Box DS). I don't know much...

I *think* (but can't find confirmation) the Ania is a Low Output MC, not High?

The specs are listed as:

Tracking Pressure 1.75 - 2.00g
Input load impedance 100 ohm
Output impedance 10 ohms
Nominal output voltage 350μV
Channel Balance : ≥ 20μV
Separation : ≥ -29dB

Load settings for adjustable MC stages

Impedance -100ohm
Capacitance - 1000pF
Gain setting - High​

How do I translate this to the TubeBox DS jumpers? love jumpers off for 60db (as suggested in the manual but not noted in the cartridge specs) and set the front dial around 100 then fiddle from there?

Thanks for any point in the right direction.

 

Probably depends on what you want in a phono preamp, the Pro-ject works with LOMC cartridges and has a subsonic filter too, so if you want either of those features, the Lounge and Budgie are out. Plus it has fully adjustable loading in both resistance and capacitance. Plus discrete transistor and tube circuits instead of opamps like the Lounge, and probably much lower output impedance than the Budgie for better compatibility with preamp inputs (the Budgie design lacks an output stage so has very high output impedance). The non-hybrid Budgie is kind of a tube-SS hybrid like the Pro-ject anyway, so not much difference there, the Budgie uses SS current sources for the tubes while the Pro-ject has a solid state input stage. I've no idea how they compare soundwise, but the Pro-ject Tube Box S2 kills much of the competition in features.

That said, the Lounge and Budgie are both pretty well loved around here, and there's a lot of competition in that price range too, including some full tube preamps from China, and lots of nice units in the used market too, so it's a good time to be in the market. Good luck, lots of nice choices.

 

Thanks for the excellent reply,

I'm keeping my mind open here and watching the used market too. This will be working with KEF LS50 Wireless speakers and Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC Esprit w/Ortofon 2M Red. I'll probably go Blue or even Bronze on the cartridge eventually. It would be cool if it had an extra input as I have a Node 2 as well and could use that extra analog input for any MQA listening.

 

Ania is LOMC, output is .35 mV.

1) Set the gain for 60 dB (no jumpers on any pins in the gain section at the rear). I'd prefer more gain, but the DS has 60 dB, tops. Your output from the phono will be 350 mV. Provided your input sensitivity of the next stage is thereabouts, you should be fine;

2) Keep the Sub-sonic filter "on" (two jumpers, as per diagram), set the impedance to 100 on the front dial (the cart impedance is 10 Ohm) - you can experiment with it on the fly later, to see what sounds better to you;

3) Never mind the capacitance - it's N/A to LOMC carts.

EDIT: your Parasound HALO's input sensitivity is 300 mV, so, 350 mV coming out of the DS will be more than plenty.

 

Extra input on the phono preamp? You need an extra input on the Kefs, not the phono preamp. I think the Kef's convert to digital anyway for the crossover, don't they? Probably best to keep it digital to them, if you can, to avoid too many back and forth conversions, but who knows, once you've made the comittment to convert to digital processing, extra conversions won't affect the sound as much.

 

the new issue tung sols sound incredible in the TBDS and were the best I tried when i had it.

 

Yes, the KEFs have multiple inputs but only one analog input. To keep a full MQA unfold I need to be utilizing the Node's DACs and sending signal to the KEFs via analog. Using the digital inputs utilize the KEFs DACs which aren't capable of a full MQA.

 

Thanks, Benzion. Up and running...volume is better than the Parasound, and seems to be warming up to a better sound. Not sure I’m noticing much impact from the front dial ( F/V has a jumper, hope that’s right). First night with Moondance, Sticky Fingers and Born to Run and the wife is happy, so good upgrade so far!

 

For LOMC, the F/V must have a jumper. Also make sure the subsonic filter is on - a double jumper to the left, the pins on the right open. If you can't hear the difference with different loadings - keep it at the recommended 100 Ohm and be done with it.

 

Anyone an idea on these tubes?

 

Is there a difference in ease of removing/replacing tubes in these preamps?

 

Benzion, I could not resist and checked that DJ cart and it sounds nice and sweet

 

Yesterday I have ordered one pair of new stock of Tung-sol ECC83 from Russian fabric. I´m curious how they will sound with comparing my NOS RFT tubes...