Who can hear above 20Khz?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Thermionic Vinyl, Dec 5, 2015.

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  1. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Yeah I know and I'm suspicious...

    Test carried out on a laptop using earbuds...
     
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  2. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    [​IMG]

    OK, I had my little joke. Audience: [ cricket ]

    Back O/T, isn't a discussion of hi-res more of a sidebar to the OP, highest freqs one can hear? Isn't hi-res more about the bigger picture of detail, ambience, presence, "air"?

    If it isn't, I'd like to re-post this comparison: 24bit/96kHz vs 24bit/192kHz on HDtracks »

    It went undiscussed, and I wonder if anyone tried it. I did, fully expecting (wanting, actually) to hear no differences between 24/96 and 24/192. Yet I did; not night and day, but they were discernible to me (focus on the percussion). And I don't consider myself to be particularly audiophile-y compared to much of this community.

    Just curious, hope it doesn't de-rail the thread.
     
  3. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    I have a pretty good sense of pitch, especially for songs enjoyed in my teens and 20's. I can sing the song I haven't heard for years, and play the CD and I will have been exactly in tune with the recording.

    I have recently noticed for songs I concreted in my memory in my late teens and then nostalgically revisit, indeed, the sparkle or lustre is lost from my memory of the music. It takes a good crank of the treble for them to be as invigorating as they once were.
     
  4. Doug Sclar

    Doug Sclar Forum Legend

    Location:
    The OC
    Perhaps, but I suspect that listening to sine waves is quite different than listening to music. I can't really offer an explanation but I used to hear 20k sine waves with ease. Now I can't hear a sine wave above 16k, but I can still seem to hear 20k in music and the real world.

    How do I know this? All I can say is I have a lot of experience listening to music on high quality systems and for the most part I can still hear all the top end shimmer in music playback that I ever remember hearing. I once designed a mod to an MCI console to make the center frequency of the high frequency peaking equalizer center on 20k.

    This added a lot of air to many signals that passed through it and I'm very familiar with that sonic signature. I am happy to report that I can still seem to hear that range. I sometimes seem to prefer the sonic signature of a cartridge with a 2db bump at 20k that is pretty flat at 16k, and particularly for that shimmer.

    How can I hear that when I can't hear a 16k sine wave? I don't have the answer, but it makes me question the commonly accepted practice of defining our hearing based on threshold hearing of sine waves.

    If I could no longer hear those frequencies, there is little doubt that I would notice a change in how recordings sound to me, and frankly that has not been the case at all. I'm extremely grateful for that.
     
  5. Archimago

    Archimago Forum Resident

    Hmmm, with what system are you using to do the test?

    Remember, transducers are nonlinear and harmonic distortions could be an issue if the device isn't cleanly reproducing a pure sine wave. Heck, I can "hear" 20kHz as well if I turn up the volume on my computer speakers but that's not the true tone being heard...
     
  6. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    That test is most likely better at identifying the presence of aliasing artifacts, resampling artifacts, harmonic distortions in headphones, and all sorts of other audible artifacts that happen when video gets lossy video and audio gets repeatedly converted and resampled to get it presented in all the formats supported by sites like YouTube. Add to that the multiple problems that can happen on the playback side. For example, Windows will very likely resample the audio and change the bit depth to match what your playback settings are. The Windows resampler isn't very good. So you'll be hearing artifacts from that resampler as well, along with whatever other audio processing is enabled (like Beats audio or other branded audio enhancements that many audio drivers add, especially on laptops), along with distortions caused by the wimpy onboard headphone amp in the computer.
     
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  7. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Yeah, I figure this is far from a reliable test...I mean, what I hear is definitely the oscillation signal (i.e. not just the presence of something, but something that reflects the original sound signal). But yeah, I imagine there are a lot of undesirable variables getting in the way of an accurate test.
     
  8. Chooke

    Chooke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    While I don't doubt you may have heard a difference it is highly unlikely that it was higher frequencies or that nebulous concept of air. There are many variables which could have caused a change in what was heard or perceived. One of the more obvious ones is the ultrasonic noise of 192 interacting with the electronics or speakers, causing distortion elsewhere in your audio chain in the 20-20khz range. This issue is fairly well known.
     
  9. cesare

    cesare Member

    Location:
    Sao Paulo, Brazil
    :righton::tiphat:
     
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  10. grimreaper46

    grimreaper46 New Member

    Location:
    manchester
    I am 70. I certainly can't hear a sine wave test tone above about 12kHz. BUT and it is a big but, the question is do frequencies above that (even above 20kHz) have any effect. A few years back I was at a dealers listening to some music. He then switched in a 50kHz filter. The effect was noticable. Now there is no way on earth I could hear 50kHz but I suppose the harmonics generated by that frequency and above fed back into the audio band.
     
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  11. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Gently weeping guitarist.

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    16KHz now. In my younger days i had unusually good ears and could hear up to about 25KHz. The doctor was very amazed and she said she only ever had one other patient capable of that. But alas, playing in bands all my life coupled with age (43) and tinnitus has limited my range.
     
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  12. CoolJazz

    CoolJazz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastern Tennessee
    Wow....and you still believe it? Funny how that extra distortion always makes music sound better. It's a great problem to have!

    CJ
     
  13. Chooke

    Chooke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Yes I believe in evidence based science, you?
     
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  14. mwheelerk

    mwheelerk Sorry, I can't talk now, I'm listening to music...

    Location:
    Gilbert Arizona
    Its not so good for me. Probably in the 9-10 range. I've simplified my system and with the hearing limitation I try not to make comments on sound quality and limit my comments to "I like/don't like the music" for the most part though I do clearly hear very compressed loud masterings and identify those when commenting.
     
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  15. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL



    Problem with this test is it doesn't say at what volume I should set the computer output. Neither do I have quality closed back headphones, or a proper soundcard that can output every frequency at the same relative volume (major issue) because the only involvement my computer has in my musical experience is to record FLAC files to CDr.

    With my Senheiser C2s buds, and adjusting the volume as low as possible with the needle at the frequencies I could clearly perceive with decent sonority , 10K, 4 and 6k, I can start hearing at ¨fair¨, that is to say a little over 12 Khz, not bad for an 55-year old lifetime hard rocker.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
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  16. sirmikael

    sirmikael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    With the above test, I paused it at 16375 Hz. I'm 37 years old.
     
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  17. 18625 Hz. for me, at 49 years old, using my Audio-Technica ATH-M40x headphones at a moderate volume.
     
  18. Fiddlefye

    Fiddlefye Forum Resident

    I didn't do this test, but at my last hearing test with an audiologist (when I turned 60 this past year) I could still hear 17k. My first test was in my late 20s and I actually hit 26k back then. That may sound strange, but as a kid all sorts of appliances used to drive my ears buggy and the B&W TV made a high-itched squeal that was really annoying if I sat too close.
     
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  19. Robert C

    Robert C Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Remember, with these tests it's important to use a pair of headphones that your brain perceives as flat. A spectral flatness test can be found here: The Ultimate Headphones Test ».
     
  20. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    That makes no sense whatsoever! The goal should be to use cans that TEST flat. Whatever you hear will be the deviation from that flatness.

    And, for the last time: no human adult can hear 20,000kHz or above! A human adult over the age of 50 is lucky if they can hear anything over 16,000kHz! Period!
     
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  21. 17 Khz. In my mid 30's.
     
  22. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

  23. Robert C

    Robert C Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    That's helpful if you're trying to determine which frequencies you hear better than others. If you're trying to figure out simply whether you can hear a very high frequency (regardless of how well you can hear it in terms of dBH) you'll want a pair of headphones that your brain thinks is flat.
     
  24. Time Is On My Side

    Time Is On My Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    I started to hear it around 17-18khz.
     
  25. Fiddlefye

    Fiddlefye Forum Resident

    Sorry, not so. On average, certainly. I first went to an audiologist at age 28 (I am an orchestral musician and a hearing test was part of our contract) and he was very surprised when I finally ran out of steam at 26k. If I rummage around through my ancient paperwork I might still have the report somewhere, though it was 32 years ago. Just because the norm is 20k at best doesn't mean there aren't a few oddities out there. My last test around my 60th birthday last October I still got to 17k. Not too shabby for an old geezer.
     
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