Who is the most overrated figure in Jazz?

Kenny G's only crime is that he is probably the most successful Jazz musician that ever released anything...and that it is his misfortune that he is white and not starving.

The greatest myth of any artist is that of the starving artist. Starvation doesn't inspire Art, it just guarantees anonimity forever.

That Kenny G's skin color somehow endows clunkiness and non worthiness is another myth. Being of one skin color or another really doesn't have anything to do with being cooooooooool or talented...but that's just shows how we have been conditioned to by Racism to react. This is a unique form of reverse racism, if you will, that "says" if you're a person of some other color, there are no further credentials that one has to present to the general buying public. It's a given and critics, who are a part of this scam, drool over you.

Kenny G's music success was due to it's ability to crossover into the audience that is, unfortunately, without any wherewithall to the perception of the other talents that have been and are out there, and enjoy that he enjoys monetary success...of any type...it doesnt count somehow. Someone out there is buying those Kenny G records, it's just that no one wants to admit it !

 

Sorry but you guys who claim Miles Davis or John Coltrane are over rated are just way off on this one. Yoy want to say Madonna is over rated or Michael Jackson fine. But get real about Coltrane and Davis. If they don't float your boat that is one thing but in this day and age when Jazz as a whole (one of the great American art forms) is so painfully undervalued in America to start calling Coltrane over rated is just wrong.

 

If anyone qualifies for consideration in this post it's Wynton Marsalis.

To me, his celebrity is due more for the result of his being a music prodigy and the result of the clever marketing of his music. All of this came together to illustrate just how empty the jazz world was of Talent due to the passing of many of the Old Masters...especially in the 70's and 80's. What also accentuated his importance and aided his manufactured celebrity, was the delayed and massive reissue campaign of the solid jazz catalogues to CD, that was mounted not that long ago.

It's hard to tell whether his popularity spurred this mining of the jazz catalogues, but the good timing of his appearance on the jazz scene, helped Marsalis establish himself solidly in the public eye when there was nothing being produced of any value or importance during this important period of time.

Like anything else, it's all in the timing !

 

AGREED!

 

Kenny G is repulsive to me. I grew up listening to fusion and "soft jazz" in high school and ten years later I found Coltrane. That opened up a hole new world for me. All the great bebop and modern sessions on labels like Prestige and Blue Note. One night on a first date with a girl who was introduced to me as a jazz lover, I asked what her favorite was. She said, "Kenny G, isn't he amazing?". I was speechless and very dissapointed and even though she was quite a looker, I couldn't go out with her again.
He should be catagorized in New Age not Jazz IMHO.
Wynton Mersalis (spelling?) although an excellent technical player is very overrated as a jazz player. No soul, no swing. Without that whats the point?

 

Agreed, Marsalis just doesn't seem to have the soul or fire or whatever you want to call it. Kenny G I never think of as jazz, new wave smooth, boring, something. I also think of Herbie Hancock as overrated

 

mcow1, listen to Hancock's early stuff on Blue note. "Maiden Voyage" and "Takin' Off" are my favorites and good ones to start with. If after listening to these you still feel the same I guess we like different kinds of jazz.

 

Without going into point by point detail, I'll just say I dissagree with everything you say here!

 

Hey Bobbit,
My future wife was into all this crap when we first started going out. A year and a half later she is into the same mid 50's jazz and alt-country that I love. Shame you tossed a looker aside for musical taste that you could have changed. However, I may have had the same reaction as I also find Kenny G. truly repulsive. Kenny G. fans may be beyond saving.
Cheers,
Kayaker

 

"I also think of Herbie Hancock as overrated"


It's not a crime to make money, but those Bose infomercials really turn me off.

I'm sure Miles is shaking his head, "Yeah, I always knew he was like that" on that one !

 

Kayaker, You may be right, but then I would not have met my future wife!! She doesn't "get" Coltrane yet, but she's young!

 

I'll give it a try.

 

MCOW1, I should have said I agree with you on his stuff after 1970. Not to my taste either.
The Lp's I mentioned are from around '60 or '61.

 

Yes, Herbie's mid-60's Blue Note albums are superb!

I find it amusing that, Kenny G excepted, most of the above picks for "overrated" jazzbos are simply players whose style of music someone personally doesn't dig. One cannot call Miles or Coltrane "overrated" and have any credibility. You might not like their music (which often goes through several very distinct periods and styles), but their influence cannot be discounted.

When i hear the term "overrated" i think of unwarranted success and hype, so i might agree that Wynton Marsalis is overrated only in that his skills and influence as a jazz musician are far beneath many others who are much better but much less famous.

Ray

 

I listed Miles Davis in a previous post not because I don’t like his music (I own most of his records) I listed him because I don’t kneel at the church of Davis. I know people who think that if the Israelis and the Palestinians would sit down together and listen to Kind of Blue all would be well in the world.

 

Point taken.

Like that old Coke commercial -

"I'd like to teach the world to sing..."

 

Maybe we should try that. If we all sent our worn out copies of "Kind of Blue" to the mideast.....

 

...and there are a lot of other Jazz Greats who can/could be very good but, at times, were pleasing the crowd a little too much.* Oscar Peterson comes to my mind: a brilliant performer for sure, but he made a whole bunch of albums that were nothing but "streamlined" for commercial success and used his artistry (or even not much more than his name) as a sweet topping for music which hadn't that much to do with Jazz. His great albums are thrilling, but his worst albums are more worse (Can you say this? Pardon my English.) than those of his «competitors». Here's another one: Chet Baker. His mid-60s albums with the "Mariachi Trumpets" or whatever they called themselves are ridiculous. The background music on any of today's late night shows is more refined.

*Frank Sinatra has often been criticized for this, and I admit it's a shame that he is recognized for "Strangers In The Night" the world over. He would, in fact, do things like that very rarely - for the most part it would be no more than one song per album to help it into the charts ("Strangers", "That's Life").

 

Kenny G...

 

Overrated is a bit harsh for me, but I guess I find Pat Metheny overrated. I have a friend, a music major, who plays jazz guitar, and I think he's real good. He absolutely adores Pat Metheny and learned a lot from him. I like some of the things I heard by Metheny, but he's never had a similar effect on me as my friend. Maybe I need to learn more guitar or something...

 

Not to rub anyone the wrong way, but how many people offering their opinions here are actually musicians, let alone jazz musicians. I find it interesting that the term "overrated" is used here. Who rated anyone in the first place to be considered "overrated" ? Music isn't a popularity contest, contrary to what some may think. If you don't "get" Coltrane, thats fine, but don't put the guy down just because you don't "get" what he's doing. If it's not your thing that's OK. It's about your individual tastes NOT what the mass consensus thinks. No offense to anyone just contributing to the discussion as well.

Best To All - ED

 

Ed,

do you have to be a hen to tell a good egg from a bad one?

Arne

 

Have you tried Bright Size Life, New Chautauqua, and Beyond the Missouri Sky?

 

Hi Arne, no not at all. Each person's ears hold's their own truth, but the term "overrated" is nothing more than someone else's hype and to me hype means absolutely NOTHING. Sorry if I came off a bit strong.

Best - ED

 

I never intended anyone to compare Coltrane to Kenny G!

I like John Coltrane. I suppose my post gave the impression that I did not. I've got 20-30 albums with him as either the frontman or in a supporting role. I've given all of his major albums "time" to either sink in or not. Many did not.

My claim is that he is overrated. Many consider him to be one of the top 2 or 3 innovators in the history of jazz and I do not. That's all. Here I'm sounding touchy again. I also have a tough time with Parker and Coleman. I guess I prefer Hawkins, Young and Webster.

I just wanted to find out if others found certain figures in jazz to be over-hyped. Anyone else not "get into" Eric Dolphy (after appropriate listening time?).