Who was a bigger influence on the burgeoning punk scene, NY Dolls or The Stooges? Why?

the Dolls looked repulsive...like their debut, but geez. : )

 

Always had the impression the Dolls were more of East Coast thing, and even then possibly more of a NYC thing.

 

This. And the Stooges were just way better in every conceivable way IMO. First and last AFAIAC.
-Bill

 

Nah. The Dictators didn't influence anyone other than a handful of rock critics in NYC.

 

Dictators, Dolls, (even early Kiss), Ramones, etc., does show a continuum, something was welling up, something was gonna get out.

 

I love The Dolls, specifically Johnny Thunders. He was the guitar player that had the greatest influence on UK punk bands (Steve Jones copped everything from Johnny).
But I see Dolls and Heartbreakers as awesome rock n roll, not so much punk.
Stooges deserve the plaudits, for their great but easy to play songs and for Iggy's nihilism.

 

Fan of both bands, but as to the bigger influence on punk I submit Exhibit A

 

Musically, Punk felt retrogressive to me.
Stooges were a combination of garage and avant-garde. So aside from the 'boredom' angle of the lyrics and the nihilism and attitude of the delivery, they were perhaps not the biggest musical influence. UK Punk music was pub rock and chuck berry so that means the Dolls were more of a connection musically with their own Chuck Berry-derived sound. It's also often said that UK punk started on the pub rock circuit with Eggs Over Easy and Ducks Deluxe.

 

Nobody who's heard those bands has ever said that, though.

 

Jerry Lee Lewis was the 1st & best punk rocker...

Everything else pales when compared to Jerry Lee @ Sun &

MC5 predates Stooges & Dolls and the 5 was better than both

Anyway the Dolls never were considered punk they were always considered glam & great rock archaeology...

The Stooges on the other were more punk than glam although they were labelled Glam at the time

 

Ehhh depends, really. For the NYC scene, probably the Dolls. For the UK, probably the Stooges. The Sex Pistols covered "No Fun" all the time, while "New York" was pretty much nothing but a middle finger to the Dolls.

 

Interesting opinions. Pretty much my conclusion that the NY Dolls were more influential in the NY scene whereas the Stooges held more away over British punk rock. Of course there were precursors to both but those two bands were really at ground zero right before and as punk hit.

 

Worth noting that the 1st UK punk album (Damned x3) included a Stooges tune.

 

I don't specifically have an answer to this, although I suspect the proximity of the Dolls in New York played a significant part in its development.

But the question reminds me of the concert I saw in Memphis in 1973 where Iggy opened for the Dolls, ending in a near riot, Johnny Thunders hurling his vintage Les Paul Special, the one I believe is on the cover of Too Much Too Soon, into the stage floor and breaking the neck off, and Johansen tossing the pieces into the audience before being led away by the Memphis cops. I think his arrest was because when they came out for the encore, someone in the audience shouted "[Fornicate] you!", with David replying innocently, "Who wants to [fornicate] me?" The guy in the audience then ran down the aisle, jumped on stage and kissed Johansen on the mouth, causing to police to close in on that guy and leading to the subsequent mayhem in front of the stage, the broken guitar, and David being led away with an exaggerated shrug.

Ah! Rock 'n' Roll.

BTW, in an article in Mojo, I think, several years ago, one of the Dolls' roadies claimed that Johnny Thunders was so dim that when he accidentally flipped his guitar's pickup selector switch to a pickup with the volume off, he thought the guitar was broken and smashed it in frustration. I've had always wondered what led him to destroy that beautiful guitar for seemingly no reason.

 

If it's any consolation, in 1973 a Les Paul Special was still just a very affordable used guitar.

 

No, the Dolls were vital to the UK punk scene - the intial scene in London, that is. The McLaren/Pistols links are obvious but Mick Jones and Tony James were stumbling around on platforms trying to look like Johnny Thunders at the same time. The Dolls appearance on the Old Grey Whistle Test is considered one of the seminal, influential moments on the development of the punk scene in the UK. A bit like the Bowie performance of Starman on Top of the Pops - talking of which, you might as well say Bowie was a bigger influence as everyone was into him. Notwithstanding the fact that out of Bowie came Lou Reed/Velvets, Iggy...

 

... I say everyone was into Bowie but I don't think John Lydon was, he seemed like more of, dare I say it, a hippie!

 

John Cale produced Stooges.
Todd Rundgren produced New York Dolls.
They each both produced a Patti Smith album.
Lots of overlap going on.

 

So was Bowie early on, though few were probably following him then.

 

My vote goes to the Dolls. Here's why:

The Stooges were around for some time, and did not lead directly to punk.

The Dolls came around, and punk soon followed.

I know correlations do not establish causation. But here I think the LACK of a direct following of punk from The Stooges suggests they did not lead into punk more than the Dolls did.

 

The self-titled NY Dolls record came out the same year as Raw Power though. And both bands imploded around the same time.

 

I'd give the NY Dolls an edge. They were a more direct influence on both the Ramones and the Sex Pistols, and Pistols guitarist Steve Jones has often mentioned the influence Johnny Thunders had on him.

 

You guys just summed up my thoughts, totally agree. I will say it's not by a large margin, and good arguments have been made for both, but there's just something about the Dolls' attitude and vibe that I can't quite articulate which pushes them just ahead of the Stooges for me in this regard.

Either way, I think we can all agree that both bands recorded and performed some of the most kick-ass Rock and Roll ever heard by human ears!

 

Not really, as stated here. Malcolm McLaren's original plan was to bring NY Dolls over to the UK. When they broke up, he created the Pistols instead.

 

That's the truth right there.