Why did Ultravox change musical directions?

Rage In Eden is vastly underrated I feel. I know I always saw it as Vienna's slightly clumsy, ugly, younger brother who I didn't want to play with, but returning to it years later, there is a really good album there.

 

Spot on!

Look at Joy Division for example. Pretty straight ahead Punk to ....whatever you call something like Closer.

Plus you had all the bands that changed drastically but changed their name as well....so you don't think they changed as you don't remember the earlier version. Like the Specials were the Coventry Automatics, Dexys were the Killjoys, the Waterboys were Another Pretty Face etc.

I think if anything a band that stayed the same during that period is pretty much the exception to the rule.

 

It's true, Billie Currie doesn't seem to get mentioned as much as some of his contemporaries, even though he had a hand in at least two huge, classic early-80s synth pop hits: "Vienna," of course, and "Fade to Grey" by Visage. In fact, I think that first Visage album is excellent, and I listen to it more often than Vienna. I mean, how could you go wrong with what is essentially a supergroup consisting mostly of people from Magazine and Ultravox?

And speaking of Magazine, I think Systems of Romance has A LOT in common with Magazine. They were both on a very similar wavelength, exploring the artsy, foward-thinking, Bowie-in-Berlin influenced strain of post punk. And both bands had extremely talented, super creative keyboardists who had a big role in defining their sound.

 

Confession time: I have never heard that Visage album for the simple reason that I can't stand Steve Strange. A guy who obviously never got the lyrics to Bowies "Fashion" and ended up stealing Teletubbies. Maybe I should just get over it and check it out.

 

Yeah, Steve Strange was a bit of a goofball; he obviously lacked the depth and vision of Howard Devoto and John Foxx. But his voice suited Visage's material, so I don't mind him on the debut. The music on that album is a bit more commercial than Magazine, and except for "Fade to Grey," a bit less "serious" than Vienna-era Ultravox, but I like it.

 

Just to clarify, and it's understandable to conflate, but my question really has no relation to Ure, as this transition happened, it seems, some three years earlier.

Listening to Systems just seems like a major departure from their first two albums, and so the evolution from punk of all things seems abrupt or unnatural. I hadn't considered that many of the band members were fans of electronic music (in part bc I didn't know it had yet existed).

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

Visage is an amazing album, an all time favourite since it was released.

 

Nah. I just can't handle all that New Romantic stuff. Visage? Yikes. Not attacking those that like it, but for me that was the start of a dire period in popular music. Things were bad, we had Punk, and we jumped right back in the fire with a bunch of posers playing ditties.

The successor to Systems of Romance is John Foxx's The Garden, which actually has a track titled "Systems of Romance" on it.

 

I find Foxx's 80s releases after The Garden to be even more poppy than the stuff Ultravox was releasing.

 

I don't think the jump between the debut and Systems is that great. They're more polished, better gear, but in essence, the changes are more indicative of maturity. Ha Ha Ha has a bite to it, an energy. You first got this from a single released right after the first album - one that was not on an album until much later as an extra, the wonderful Young Savage. Also, listen to them live around the time of their first album (there are EP's out there, and tracks have been included as extras) and you'll find that when performing they were more Ha Ha Ha than anything else.

As far as studio work goes, Ha Ha Ha is a bit like a coiled spring. When Systems came out it was/is different, but we should remember that Foxx and the band were beginning to drift apart at that point. Foxx left and made Metamatic, a synth album that makes Make Who Dies Every Day sound positively lush. Then he did The Garden, which as I've written before, is the true successor to Systems.

The first album didn't sell well - so I expect Ha Ha Ha was done on the fly, based largely on live performances.

I could play Dislocation from Systems every day - the introduction of the drums on that needs to be played loud.....

 

...and of course Ultravox were previously Tiger Lily...

 

I think they hit on something with "Hiroshima Mon Amour" with the Roland drum machine and didn't quite grasp its significance until the next album. "Hiroshima" was kind of an afterthought on the album and in fact was relegated to the b-side of the first single. But somewhere along the way they must have realized it was an idea worth pursuing further, and brought that into the third album. All just speculation of course.

 

I think you nailed it. The first three albums seem to logically progress for me, even though having Hiroshima Mon Amor at the end of Hahaha is a bit jarring at first. Also, as you say, Metamatic sounds very much like the logical successor to Systems of Romance.

I think what Metamatic and the strikingly different Vienna show is how much Ultravox! was John Foxx's vision and when he left they became a completely different band.

All things considered though, I think Systems, Metamatic and Vienna are all landmark synth rock albums with each being very influential in it's own right. Absolutely essential.

 

To this day, for some reason I've never really warmed up to The Garden. It's okay, but I prefer Metamatic, and weirdly, even The Golden Section. I don't find it to be nearly as adventurous or groundbreaking as Systems of Romance.

 

Like Vaughan said above, "The Garden" feels like a continuation of "Systems Of Romance".

A friend recently played "Pressure Points" - she's a big Anne Clark fan - and it's amazing how poppy the - Foxx written and performed - music on that album is.

 

Very much agree - especially true of Golden Section and Mysterious Ways - very pop-oriented. Some songs are downright Beatles-y.

 

Yeah, sadly Foxx lost his mojo after The Garden. He made a couple albums, and then disappeared for years before coming back.

 

Am I alone in preferring Metamatic to anything Ultravox released?

 

Metamatic is awesome, revolutionary. It is the essence of much that was going on at the time, and was to come. Its stark beauty, Ballardian and surreal lyrics, and almost dead-pan delivery has never been matched, imo. I can recommend Ballard's Atrocity Exhibition as a great companion in tone.

I first bought the debut album on release. I bought it from a local Chemist (weird). I got it because of the weird PVC jackets, and the gatefold with Polaroids attached with various things. Dangerous Rhythm, b/w My Sex was getting radio air play. I bought each of the other albums as they came out. For the record, the beautiful track Just for a Moment that closes Systems of Romance has never sounded better than the CD reissue. The Vinyl was marred by an awful "crackle" - like a poorly compressed MP3. Hearing it on CD, pristine, is really nice.

But to be honest, I'm too close to these albums to be able to rank them.

 

Thank You.
I had no idea that even existed and its exactly what I needed this afternoon.

 

I absolutely love The Thin Wall. Ultravox didn't totally lose their experimental sound when Johm Foxx left, even if they were more commercial and Midge Ure wasn't cool. For me it's when Konny Plank stopped producing them that Ultravox became less inventive, less interesting and too polished. They still had their moments though.

 

I can't help thinking Ultravox could have progressed a lot more from "Systems" onwards, if their one-dimensional rhythm section hadn't held them back - with that in mind, contemporaries like Magazine, Japan, even Siouxsie & The Banshes, were clearly in a different league. That very basic staccato 4/4 may have come to define the band's sound and served them well over the course of several albums (for me, "Systems Of Romance" up to "Rage In Eden" - the longer album version of "The Thin Wall" with the haunting viola solo might be their masterpiece); however they quickly found themselves in a musical dead-end they wouldn't be able to escape. "Quartet" was the first mis-step (surprisingly, George Martin thought they were "the most musical band" he'd ever worked with), and while "Lament" tried to redress the balance somewhat (a passable, Japan-esque fretless bass appears on "When The Time Comes", along with some syncopated rhythms), they'd fallen behind the competition by then and the game was more or less up.

Like various other posters, I love the first Visage album as well (in fact it was the second album I ever bought with my pocket money) but now feel that, despite the absence of John McGeoch, the follow-up ("The Anvil") is the superior album - it is more successful at creating a cohesive atmosphere, with superior arrangements, and probably better songs too. I'm not a huge fan of Midge Ure, but his hazy, "cobwebbed" fin de siècle production on that album still sounds astonishing to me and may be the highlight of his career.

As for John Foxx, I too was surprised at the persistence with which he was seemingly trying to out-pop Midge Ure post "Metamatic", just as it became clear that he wasn't very good at writing traditional pop songs. That said, I always enjoyed the odd track on "The Garden" and "The Golden Section", even the sappy "Stars on Fire".

 

Guitarist Robin Simon's contribution should be noted. He came on board with Systems of Romance and brought a completely different feel with his textured and sophisticated playing. To this day, he remains Foxx's favorite guitarist.

 

I love Metamatic but it's not better then the first four or so Ure Ultravox albums IMO.

Visage is Ultravox with Steve Strange on vocals - brilliant album as is the follow up.

IMO 80's Ultravox produced four very good to great albums. Sure the singles were commercial - nothing wrong with that. But there are some dark pieces of less than commercial synth pop on those albums such as this one

 

A lot of artists made that development. Look at Gary Numan for example, or even Joy Division, started as punk, then post punk, and right towards the end they started incorporating more synths and turned into New Order.