Why Do Great Movies Have Crappy Endings?'

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Rick Bartlett, Jan 14, 2018.

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  1. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

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    I always thought a better ending for The Thing would be to have the two men sitting down quietly, sipping on a bottle of Vodka in front of a dying fire, waiting to freeze to death... and after a few hours, and before they die, they hear the roar of a distant helicopter. They look up and realize they're about to be rescued. One of them says, "well, I guess we'll find out before too long if one of us is the alien," the other nods, and they wait for the helicopter to land nearby... and we roll the credits. At least that sets up a potential sequel, plus it ends on a bit of a potentially-optimistic ending. I always thought one reason the movie didn't do well financially is because audiences tend to resist films where everybody dies at the end. They want somebody to win.

    Buttons are good. :cool:
     
  2. Rick Bartlett

    Rick Bartlett Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Yes! just Yes!!
     
  3. Thesmellofvinyl

    Thesmellofvinyl Senior Member

    Location:
    Cohoes, NY USA
    I think what audiomixer is suggesting is that often, art imitates life. I'm no film critic, but the point of The Thing may be not what happens in the end, but how the characters handle the challenges they encounter during the story.
     
  4. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

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    Yeah, years later, I bumped into a couple of people who worked on Carpenter's Thing, and when I heard they had worked on it, I gave them my ending. They laughed and said, "wow, we could've used you back in 1982!" :sigh:

    But ultimately, I don't think it's a satisfying ending. I like to have all the loose ends neatly tied up, particularly a big sprawling action epic that boils down to "us vs. the enemy."
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  5. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US

    There are a lot of great writers who basically say “how can you write a story if you don’t know how it’s going to end?” This isnt relationship, it’s a craft. If you’re writing to discover what your story means, it’s a diary not a work of fiction. You don’t think the great short story writers like Checkov know EXACTLY where they’re going? Believe me the minute they come up with a story idea they come up with an ending. You may have answered the question why are there so many crappy endings, however.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  6. Yeah I think that's why the film didn't do well in theaters.
     
  7. From my perspective---different writers use different approaches but I was trained to at least know the beginning and ending with a skeletal outline between. If, for some reason, the story evolves into something else, you at least have an end point and, while writing the piece, you can adjust as needed. Later drafts hone it down in terms of tone and feel. The other thing I was taught is that scenes with phones aren't dramatic. Well that has changed.
     
  8. Solaris

    Solaris a bullet in flight

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    I'm saying there's a process. Gabriel Garcia Marquez said he would make lots and lots of notes about his characters and his ideas before sitting down and writing a novel. It's through this process that he would work out the plot, including the ending. It's important to have a clear point you're trying to make, I'll give you that, but if you haven't figured out the story, how do you have an ending in mind already from the start? This is where outlines, rough drafts and repeated editing come in. I think the question of why there are so many crappy endings is one of editing. Either the writer/filmmakers think the screenplay is finished and don't see the need to edit, or there's no time, as @Vidiot mentioned above regarding Explorers. But I'll meet you half way on this and say that I agree it's possible to have a story idea and have a clear ending in mind while the beginning and middle need to be worked out. It's also possible to have that ending and realize in writing the story that your original idea for the ending doesn't work. While this isn't a relationship for everyone (for some writers it is), it's also not rocket science.

    Katherine Ann Porter agrees with you, by the way. She said "If I didn’t know the ending of a story, I wouldn’t begin. I always write my last line, my last paragraph, my last page first."

    In the case of something like Lost, I think that yes, they should have had an ending in mind before they started. Making it up as you go along is sloppy.
     
  9. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    That's worse imo LOL. The ending of the Thing is perfect as it is. And why do you need to set up a sequel? Not everything needs to be a franchise. I don't think you have to pander to people who can only appreciate a happy ending either. Great art should raise people's expectations and ability to appreciate different things not just please the lowest common denominator.

    There are three great horror/sci-fi films of the late 70's to mid 80's - Invasion of the Bodysnatchers, The Thing and The Fly. All are remakes of classic 50's films and all end pretty bleakly. All three films are far better for the way they end. And all three are regarded as classics now.

    If I want a happy ending I'll watch a Disney film.
     
  10. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Location:
    NY
    My memory might not be that great, but I can only remember that being done once many years ago. I thought "Dropping the cow" was a Monty Python gimmic? :shrug: :confused:
     
  11. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Maybe. I looked online and found they got credit, but those references mentioned the scene from "Holy Grail" in which cows got catapulted at knights, which doesn't seem like the same thing as the "sketch-ending" cow dropping.

    I think Python used other abrupt ways to end sketches but as far as random, out of nowhere cow dropping, I think "SNL" did that. They probably were influenced by Python, though...
     
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  12. eric777

    eric777 Astral Projectionist

    Maybe I'm the oddball here but I prefer open endings. I love endings that leave it up to me to decide what happened. I also like films that present more questions then answers. If it's a film I love then I prefer not to have closure.
     
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  13. eric777

    eric777 Astral Projectionist

    I’m just curious. What was it about the endings to Cujo and Pet Sematary that you didn’t like? I never read the books ;however, I thought they ended well in the films. I especially loved the ending to Pet Sematary.
     
  14. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    I refuse to show my wife the horrible version of The Firm, in spite of Hackman's fantastic turn.
    Who decided to change the book just for the hell of it?
     
  15. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I think it really depends on the movie. Some work well with an open-ending finale - ala "The Thing" 1982, which concludes in a perfectly satisfying way - but others would suck if they didn't give us some kind of concrete resolution.

    I certainly don't need every movie to wrap up its story in a neat little bow, but most need some form of closure. They're supposed to tell specific stories, not just random snapshots of life...
     
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  16. eric777

    eric777 Astral Projectionist

    In many cases, it depends on the film and one’s own definition of closure. I think that sometimes films try to answer too many questions and wrap too many things up. I personally can not relate to things like that.

    One example I can give is Star Wars Rogue One. I didn’t need to know why there was a flaw in the deathstar. I never once asked myself why nor did I see it as a plot hole. Now that I have an answer to why, it only made a plot hole that would not have been there otherwise. What’s next, an entire film based on the creation of the trash compactor that Luke and the others almost got killed in?

    More on topic of endings, the one that comes to my mind is Thirteen Ghosts. I loved this movie up until the ending. Everything ended so happy and all of the problems that people had were all fixed. Everything was nice and neat. I’m sorry, but making everything come to a complete end on such a happy note only played against itself.

    Anyway, that’s just my opinion. I do like some endings that bring closure if the film calls for it. I just don’t need every little question answered like some people do. Like I said, maybe I’m the oddball.

    It’s all subjective.
     
  17. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

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    In the Cujo novel, the little boy trapped in the car dies. King later revealed that he felt compelled to kill off the character because one of his real-life children was extremely ill and in the hospital at the time that chapter was written. He decided, "well, if I kill this character as a sacrifice, my own child will be OK." His kid recovered just fine, so King opted to let the novel kid stay dead. In the movie, wiser minds prevailed and they opted to let the kid barely live.

    Pet Sematary -- book and film -- is unrelentingly dark and depressing. Not a fun film. I ain't gonna watch that.
     
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  18. eric777

    eric777 Astral Projectionist

    I can understand about Cujo then. I would imagine letting the kid die might make the story pointless.

    This is just my opinion but I really loved the ending to Pet Sematary. I understand that many may not like how dark that story was ;however, If you look deeper into the story the ending does seem fitting. I won't go into detail about it since you didn't like it. It was one of his darker ones.
     
  19. jkauff

    jkauff Senior Member

    Location:
    Akron, OH
    There was actually a script written for a different ending (IIRC, Graham Greene and the producers were both worried about audiences being unsatisfied), but director Carol Reed insisted on the iconic ending shot we all know and love.
     
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  20. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I like this story about the film Point Blank:

    "After Boorman showed the finished cut to executives, they were "very perplexed and mumbling about reshoots". Margaret Booth, a legendarily tradition-minded supervising editor then working for the studio, told Boorman as the execs filed out, "You touch one frame of this film over my dead body!"
     
  21. adm62

    adm62 Senior Member

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    No great movies have crappy endings.
     
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  22. Higlander

    Higlander Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Florida, Central
    We as an audience have seen every type of ending there is.
    Therefore no ending is truly shocking or surprising, and if it is, usually it means creating an ending that is nonsense, or does not follow the flow of the rest of the movie.

    50 years ago it was easier to be creative with an ending. Not every scenario had been done over and over literally thousands of times.
     
  23. Rick Bartlett

    Rick Bartlett Forum Resident Thread Starter

    i'll add fuel to the fire, and add a film called 'white noise' with Michael Keaton.
    as a rule, I love whatever he is in, but the last 10 or 15 minutes of this film it's a disaster for me,
    and just doesn't make sense. I love the story line, love where it's going, then all of a sudden,
    it just falls and has no meaning, well at least to me that is worthwhile. I get the whole dealing with
    the dead vibe of the film, but then it just craps itself in the end.
    for me, another 'crappy' ending to what should be a great film with Michael in it.
     
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  24. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    I don't agree with the gist of that argument. It's not a matter of being able to come up with a unique, never before seen ending (which would not have even been the case even 50 years ago), but the ability to draw on the various threads introduced throughout the movie and to tie them up in a logical, self-consistent way. The ending doesn't need to fall in the 'never been done before' category to be satisfying.
     
  25. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    My third favorite film is North by Northwest, and I’m the first to admit the ending is something of a cop out followed by a cheap Freudian joke.

    So I get where you’re coming from. In fact, Hitchcock rarely stuck an ending.

    Shalom, y’all!

    L. Bangs
     
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