Why do I need so much power? Anthem STR Integrate vs Power Amp

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Jimmy Mac, Aug 15, 2018.

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  1. Jimmy Mac

    Jimmy Mac Zooropa... better by design Thread Starter

    Looking to finally have a dedicated two channel amp and was almost sold on the Anthem STR Intergrated but my guy says "You might want to consider the Anthem STR Pre and Power though as I want to make sure you have enough power for your room, and not sell yourself short and want to upgrade again in another six months"

    I'm running a Yamaha AVR right now in pure direct mode which is giving me about 100 watts of power and filling my room rather nicely. The STR integrate would double that to 200 watts and the power amp would double that even further to 400 watts but at about a $7,000 cost. Integrate is 5k, pre is 5k and power is 7k.

    Will be running either/or through either Klipsch R-7 II's (cuz I love the Klipsch sound) or B+W' 702's.

    So is the extra 200 watts of power truly worth the extra 7k in cost? Please explain to me how important "power" truly is???

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. G B Kuipers

    G B Kuipers Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    For both speakers, 200 W will be more than enough. Power rating doesn't tell you everything. A great 100 W/ch amp will be more enjoyable than a mediocre high power amp. Audition and decide if really love the sound you're getting.
     
  3. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan Forum Resident

    Your Klipsch R-7 II speakers have an efficiency of 101dB. So, do you really need a huge upgrade in power? That's not to say that a separate amp won't sound different or better. I just wonder if you need to spend that much to upgrade?

    Also, does your Yamaha AVR offer preamp outputs? If so, is there the possibility of running a few different demos of borrowed gear? That could at least confirm a need for greater watts.
     
  4. mongo

    mongo Senior Member

    Seriously, unless you're planning on upgrading to some larger, less efficient speakers, the integrated should power a wide range of speakers.

    BTW, I'm seriously considering the STR-preamp. How did you like the STR gear?
    Thanks.
     
  5. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    Current capacity in amps is more important spec than wpc, I don't see that spec on Anthem website......At 60lbs that amp is probably more overkill than anything considering the use of Klipsch high efficiency speakers. I assume that amp is class A/B, so probably first 5-6 wpc are in class A, after that A/B. Clearly it should sound much better than the Yammy, you should hear much better dynamics and resolution. It's the musical details that you will notice or should hear much more. Not so much the volume of say 200wpc......The B&W's need lots of power to sing.

    That's a massive upgrade path you are looking at.
     
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  6. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Classic sales tactic. Even the integrated will be overkill for those speakers. If you really want to get the most out of those high efficiency Klipsch speakers, you want tubes. Get something like the Raven Audio Nighthawk or Blackhawk -- they have more than enough power to make your ears bleed with those speakers.
     
  7. Erik Tracy

    Erik Tracy Meet me at the Green Dragon for an ale

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    I'll add in my anecdotal advice.

    Have a Yamaha AVR now (RX-V1800) w/ 100+Watts/channel.

    Sounded pretty good by itself. Sounded better when used with my external Carver amp. But my Musical Fidelity A5 integrated amp sounds even better when driving my B&W CDM1NT bookshelves.

    imo, of course.
     
  8. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan Forum Resident

    I agree. Tubes would work well with those Klipsch speakers. So, I'd be looking at Vincent Audio hybrid integrated or hybrid amps. Their tube/SS designs receive very good feedback, and reviews in the audiophile press. Good value amps too. Easy to pick up through Audio Advisor, if interested?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
    apesfan likes this.
  9. G B Kuipers

    G B Kuipers Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    With those high efficiency Klipsch, why go hybrid? The OP could try tube amps, even low power ones, like 10 W/ch SET amps. I am a little jealous...
     
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  10. RiCat

    RiCat Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Since the Dealer is making a recommendation, I would have him loan you any piece of gear you are thinking of buying. If he won't do that and if you are sure you will buy something from him, offer to buy the integrated and pay for it with the understanding he bring the power amp only as a loner. You can drive the power only from the integrated pre out and compare. If he wants to sell the upgrade I think he needs to prove it is worth it to you. Yes all that future proofing is a good sales point but given your listening tastes the lower power option is more than adequate. However I would give the store a chance to prove their recommendations with the promise of a full credit return of the integrated and a loan of the power amp for trial.
     
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  11. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan Forum Resident

    I agree. I just thought a hybrid amp would offer a blending of tube and SS sound. Plus the damping factor and bass control of SS. Less sticker shock as such.
     
    apesfan likes this.
  12. Minty_fresh

    Minty_fresh Forum Resident

    Location:
    B.
    That was my thought. Wouldn’t the OP do well with like 10w class a power?
     
  13. Minty_fresh

    Minty_fresh Forum Resident

    Location:
    B.
    I’d also add to look into Odyssey audio. Klaus’s stuff is excellent.
     
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  14. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan Forum Resident

    The Vincent Audio SP 331MK does output the first 10 watts as Class A. Tops, 150 wpc into 8 Ohms, and 300 into 4 Ohms. More than enough for the OP's Klipsch speakers, with plenty of headroom.
     
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  15. Mike-48

    Mike-48 A shadow of my former self

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    I think the integrated would probably do a great job. That said, I've always liked the sound of high-powered amps -- they have an openness that is delightful to my ears. In your case, paying $7k more seems like too much for that, and besides, the integrated will probably give you enough of it.

    I have not heard the units, but I've heard good things about these Anthem components.
     
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  16. paulewalnutz

    paulewalnutz Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    I have the Anthem 225 which was the previous integrated. The sound is good & I've been happy with my purchase but they were able to be had for $1500 the new model is nice & the room correction would be a sweet option to have.
     
  17. Jimmy Mac

    Jimmy Mac Zooropa... better by design Thread Starter

    Thanks everybody for your thoughts and suggestions. It’s pretty big room, about 30 x 40 with a staircase in the middle of it. Where I would actually be listening is in one corner of the room, about a 15 x 20 part of the room.

    Anyways I don’t have either sets of the speakers yet, I currently run Klipsch RP-280F’s but I know as soon as I get a new amp, I will buy new speakers, and the 280F’s will become surrounds.

    My initial thought was a tube/SS hybrid in the Mac MA 252, but when I demoed it at a store it clipped (tubes went from green to orange) at what I thought was not really that loud. Sitting in the chair listening to the anthems blew me away, that I could feel the music go through my chest....I liked that feeling a lot.

    I hear nothing about rave reviews for Anthems Arc program, room correction. I definitely need home theatre bypass, I also love the thought of clicking a button and I can listen to the Beatles the way everybody raves about....in mono.

    My shop would pretty much do anything for me, and let me take home a $1,000 pair of headphones to see if that was my thing....it wasn’t. So I’m pretty sure they would make sure I was satisfied with whatever purchase I chose.
     
  18. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I'd be looking at $7K speakers and $3K amplification, not the other way around. Just my $.02
     
  19. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Agree. This guy knows he's misleading you. If he doesn't, he's got no business being in this business, IMO.
     
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  20. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    Being a separates guy myself I agree with your guy for the same reasoning. More power is always beneficial especially when you don't need to stress it out to get room filling volumes.
     
  21. Minty_fresh

    Minty_fresh Forum Resident

    Location:
    B.
    Absolutely. My odyssey is 110 wpc A/B with the first 4 @ class a. I just wondered if maybe less might be more.

    Side note: I almost went with the Vincent 237 and though I went another direction I still want to hear one.
     
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  22. Standingstones

    Standingstones Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Central PA
    You might look at the Parasound and Parasound Halo lines of equipment. You certainly won't need to drop $7,000 on an amp/preamp combination.
     
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  23. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    My .02 to your inquiry.

    Since you are saying your 100 watt avr fills the room nicely, would be fairly confident the integrated will fullfill your needs.

    In a room your size i can confidently say i would go the higher power route with the separate amp, but i might look at other options to reduce the $7k increase.

    Everyone has different needs and wants.
     
  24. mitchius

    mitchius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Jamison Pa
    That MA252 wasn’t set up properly. I have very inefficient speakers and when friends are over we play them extremely loud and never had an issue. I also had an Anthem 5ch amp years ago that was very nice. Not a Mac though. Plus Klipsch are extremely efficient speakers. A 20w tube amp would be plenty. Good Luck
     
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  25. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I don't know about that?

    High power amps and ultra high efficiency speakers are not a good match.

    I have these speakers. Which have about the same efficiency as the Klipsch.

    [​IMG]

    And I run them with this 22-WPC Line Magnetic SET 581iA integrated tube amplifier. It will BLOW your doors off! @ $4,500.

    [​IMG]

    Here is an easy and inexpensive way to try out a moderately low powered, KT88 based, quality tube amp of under $1k.

    Upscale Audio is blowing out two PrimaLuna power amplifier's. The 35-wattEL34 based Prologue Four at $899 and the 30-watt KT88 based Prologue Five at $1,099*.

    I bought the Five, I am really impressed with this amp. I have twelve tube amplifiers, and this is top shelf all the way around. It is dead quiet.

    Check out this video by Kevin Deal from Upscale Audio.



    "Want the ultimate? Classic Ultralinear all-tube sound, with all the body and glory that you could ask for. For an additional $250 over the EL-34 equipped Prologue Four, you will get an amplifier that has more power, better bass authority, and a little more air on top, but never edgy.

    In addition, the ProLogue Five comes specially equipped with the following upgrades:
    • Upgraded Solen capacitors made in France. The result is an even better midband and wonderful clarity.
    • Fast Recovery Diodes. Resulting in increased definition and detail, especially when the music becomes complex.
    • KT88 Output Tubes. We use the current production copy of the legendary Genalex KT88. The tube sounds wonderful, with tremendous body and punch, while still giving you the warmth and humanity you'd expect from an all-tube amplifier.
    The ProLogue Five starts with the same basic topology as the award-winning ProLogue Two integrated amplifier. Further improvements are realized from new driver and phase splitter circuitry. The result is no need for any negative feedback. This means even more natural tonality and better overall musicality.

    From the Upscale Audio's web site.

    "Custom designed output transformers Encapsulated low hum, wide bandwidth for great bass and extended highs. Designed by Marcel Croese and one of the most prestigious transformer designers in the USA ."

    "Plug in virtually any power tube. Adaptive AutoBias will automatically adjust itself! In addition to EL-34s, you can use 6550, KT88, KT90, 6L6GC, KT66, 7581, EL37, and any of their equivalents."

    PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE FIVE STEREO POWER AMPLIFIER - NEW / FULL WARRANTY

    [​IMG]


    *Both the EL34 based Four and The KT88 based five are currently under a clearance sale from Upscale Audio for under $1,000 for the Five and the Four is a couple of hundred less.

    See this link for the sale prices.

    These amps have only been discontinued in favor for the new Prologue Premium, which is $2,200.

    Try one and actually see for yourself what 36-WPC of power can do with your Klipsch speakers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
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