Why do some OJC/Riverside LP pressings sound terrible?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by raferx, Sep 10, 2013.

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  1. raferx

    raferx Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Hi all.
    I'm not talking about the digital De Lancie remasters either, those are clearly marked.
    Both my OJC-036 (RLP-9320) Wes Montgomery – The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery, and OJC-087 (RLP-1135) Chet Baker – Chet, sound God-awful. IGD, and break up/squelch all over the place. A real disappointment as I've gotten many OJC titles that sound great, but this is now two out of four recent buys that are pretty much unplayable unless I want to make myself crazy. The prices are decent ($15), but it can start to add up in a hurry if they are duds like these two.
    Am I missing something, or is this just bad luck on two crap pressings?
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host

    I've not heard any LP's cut after the 80's. Aren't those easy to find? Why buy new, questionable masterings?

    What the hell is "squelch"?

    The Wes is a needle drop from a mother, as talked about here for years.
     
  3. crispi

    crispi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin
    2xUeL, ellingtonic and raferx like this.
  4. bilgewater

    bilgewater Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    Good question. Perhaps it's an onomatopoeic fusion of squeak + belch as an noun, rather than the usual verb. That's one way, perhaps, to describe that nasty distortion sound that some otherwise pristine vinyl pressings have at certain points. To my ears it sounds more like KEARRRRUP, like a zombie biting off three fingers at once.
     
    raferx likes this.
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host

    These are the new masterings?
     
  6. raferx

    raferx Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Mistakes were made.
    It's a shame about the newer pressings, I'd love to get the older OJC 's but I've never seen one in Vancouver.
     
  7. raferx

    raferx Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
  8. raferx

    raferx Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Absolutely. Sorry for the confusion. "KHHHRRRCCCHHH" or similar. Horrible, horrible sound.
     
  9. Parkertown

    Parkertown The Art of Drumming

    That's probably non-fill...
     
  10. Parkertown

    Parkertown The Art of Drumming

    There are a lot of Scorpio pressed OJCs, Blue Notes, and others that should be avoided. You need to learn to recognize them as they're cheaper looking than the old OJCs...
     
    GroovinGarrett likes this.
  11. mr. scratchy esq

    mr. scratchy esq Well-Known Member

    I have an OJC pressing of "Chet" with this same weird buzzing on a few spots. I bought it used a few years ago so I don't think it's a newer repress (not sure though). It sounds good otherwise and was only $5. It'll do until I find a copy of the AP 45. I cleaned it on a VPI 16 a few times and the noise is still there, definitely a pressing glitch.
     
  12. GroovinGarrett

    GroovinGarrett Mrs. Stately's Garden

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I'm seeing these pop up a lot recently. The old OJC's had decent looking artwork and fairly clean rear text. The Scorpios look washed out and have blurry text on the back.
     
  13. Parkertown

    Parkertown The Art of Drumming

    Exactly. Thanks for explaining how they look, Garrett. The covers are a bit too shiny as well...
     
    GroovinGarrett likes this.
  14. crispi

    crispi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin
    The new OJCs are not made by Scorpio. Common misconception. Are they "Scopio-quality"? Yes.

    Wish I had known that the new ones are new masterings. Then I would not have bought tons of them at the recommendation of many on this forum, when in fact those recommendation referred to the old OJCs.
     
  15. Blackie

    Blackie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    An interesting tidbit about the OJC Contemporary reissues, taken from here:
    http://www.soundfountain.com/contemporary/contemporary.html
    "(...) all of the mastering moves on all of Contemporary's records were carefully recorded in mastering notes every time a lacquer was recut. I recut several of them myself up to 1980, when we had to move the company and shut down our studio and I wrote a detailed roadmap of what I did --every eq or level move (or any other devices that may have been utilized) -- for every lacquer that was processed. So if Fantasy had cared to follow those notes (some of which changed a little over time, as the equipment improved (viz your accurate observation regarding the frequency response of the early stereo cutting heads). Also, reverb on Contemporary's recordings was accomplished with mono EMT plate during mastering -- something Roy always advocated should be improved. But by the '80s, most mastering studios did not add reverb during mastering at all and Fantasy was no exception. So, in general, the Fantasy reissues sound dry and tinny because of the lack of reverb and the failure to realize or compensate for the fact that the high end was pre-emphasized. And, in general, the Fantasy masterings lacked the musicality of the lacquers we cut because in addition to having referenced the tape machines as the recordings were intended to be played back and adding judicious reverb, we were making moves to compensate for peccadilloes on the original recordings, which were, after all, recorded live and seat-of-the pants. ." - John Koenig, November 30, 2011
     
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host

    Stop reposting that Koenig thing. It's really not accurate at all. Just a guy pissed off because they didn't include him in. I like John but this just ain't true.
     
    yasujiro likes this.
  17. Parkertown

    Parkertown The Art of Drumming

    Okay; who makes 'em then?
     
  18. mikemoon

    mikemoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Are we sure all the modern OJCs are taken from cds or is this an assumption? I have a few and they sound comparable in quality to some of the 80s OJCs that I have.

    Also, is the Chet title the new one pressed at QRP? I thought it had excellent reviews.

    As recommended by our host and others, I will stick with the older cuts to be safe.

    Non-fill, I'd guess those are Rainbo pressings (S - ....) in the matrix.

    Isn't it possible to use the original stampers without the original matrix being crossed out, etc. and using all new new matrix information, making it hard to even distinguish if they were indeed cut from the original stampers? Hopefully, this makes sense. Not sure if I'm wording it all correctly but this question has plagued me for some time.
     
  19. Szeppelin75

    Szeppelin75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Panama
    Wel i ahve OJC's Chet's Chet and it's beautiful. Dead silent, no non-fills, no of center, sounds amazing. Digital source or not i don't care, to this ears it's music magic.
     
  20. Blackie

    Blackie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Sorry, didn't know it was posted/discussed before.
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host

    Sorry, not your fault. The Contemporary stuff sounds the best of any of those labels (Prestige, Riverside, etc.). Hard to mess it up in mastering.
     
  22. crispi

    crispi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin
    Fantasy. They have OJC-xxx-RE x in the deadwax, but no GH.

    Scorpios have S-xxxxx in the deadwax, unfortunately very similar to what the Rainbo pressing plant uses to denote their pressings.

    (x=any number)
     
  23. mr. scratchy esq

    mr. scratchy esq Well-Known Member

    I checked my copy of Chet last last night and it is an original OJC with GH in the deadwax.
     
  24. thepluralofvinyl

    thepluralofvinyl Active Member

    Location:
    Music City, USA
    GH is George Horn who's the in house guy at Concord (in their building at least), he's been cutting there stuff for a very long time and still does. Being in their building I feel very confident he's still cutting from tape. I've spoken with him, he's a very old school guy. Personally, while not perfect (like any label) I've had a great success rate with newer OJC titles but I've never had a Scorpio one. In my experience Scorpio typically stickers their barcode over the barcode on the jacket (not to the jacket but to the shrink). That's sort of the way I identify Scorpio if not plainly stated.
     
  25. mikemoon

    mikemoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I'm kind of in the same boat, my newer OJCs sound pretty good and comparable to older ones. I assumed they used the same metal parts even though GH in not in the deadwax. I could be wrong but that is what I gathered when doing previous research on the forum when I first started purchasing these a few years ago from the major online retailers. I only have about 10 or so new and old OJCs so I'm not heavily invested and non have sounded bad. When I really like a title I sometimes spring for the 45 RPM version or other highly regarded version.
     
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