Why do some vinyl albums have sibilance while others don't?

I'm confused by this but am admittedly a newbie when it comes to vinyl.

On some albums, sibilance seems to be prominent whereas on others, it's nonexistent. Why is this?

I heard that some cartridges can contribute to creating or adding sibilance and am wondering if changing or upgrading cartridges could suppress or at least severely diminish instances of sibilance in the playback of vinyl.

 

Are the albums current re-issues ? Some have been cut from digital re-masters that could be a bit bright and sizzling.

 

I would love more info on this also.

A couple NOS sealed albums I opened last night and played for the first time "sibilanced" me to death. I even tried switching to a new Shure cartridge to see if it was caused by my AT92E which is only a few weeks old. Sadly no improvement.

Luckily it was only a couple of them, but really soured my vinyl listening session last night. I then went and ordered an AT92E with a Jico Shibata stylus from Turntableneedles.com in hopes it will improve these albums and anymore I may have with heavy sibilance.

Thanks for starting a new thread about this.

 

be sure there are no serious impedance mismatches between cart and phono stage. make sure you cart is aligned as precisely as possible in addition to having the correct vertical traking angle.

 

I got sibilance really badly with a cheap cart/stylus. It went away on those records with the M97xe and the AT120e. The AT92E looks to be a cheaper combo which might explain the sibilance, though you didn't say which cart you switched to. It might just be the records. I can't think of too many records I have that have major sibilance though.

 

There are several factors. Its not likely the vinyl but rather an aspect of the turntable / cartridge set up (tracking force etc.) and/or the synergy between the components.

 

Count me as one of those interested, as well. I'm encountering this with a few albums in my collection, the most recent being PJ Harvey's Let England Shake (harsh highs on some vocals and tambourine on Side 1, Track 2). I've tried increasing the tracking force as that seems to be a common suggestion, but it didn't help much. I've even ordred a second copy of that LP to compare to my existing copy, simply to see if it's an issue with the pressing or the mastering.

My experience is that the first suggestions offered by hardcore vinyl enthusiasts are along the lines of, "Your turntable/cartridge may not be set up correctly: check VTA, VTF, azimuth, alignment, etc. etc." since they love tinkering with those things (I don't), but in reality it probably has more to do with individual pressings. My dealer went a step further, suggesting that my cartridge may be overloading my phono stage, which may indeed be the case since the input sensitivity on the phono stage of my amp is 2.5 mV and the output of my cartridge (Sumiko Oyster) is 4mV. I'm learning this stuff as I go...

When all is said and done, there are numerous possible causes and it can drive one crazy. I'm trying not to worry about it too much...if I hear the same issues on the next copy of the PJ Harvey LP I may just have to get the CD.

 

Well, for instance... Coldplay's Parachutes ; while a lovely album, makes it hard to enjoy listening to, say, "Spies" as there are a lot of instances where the S sound is prominent and sibilance takes over.

Heard a bunch of needledrops of it and there is still sibilance all over the place.

Can somebody report having listened to this record without sibilance and list their setup?

I'm beginning to think some records have it regardless of setup and if that's the case, I'd be curious to know why studios/record companies let this fly.

 

Sorry for leaving out some important information. The TT is a Sony Linear tracker that uses a P-Mount cartridge. The only adjustment I can make is to tracking force. It has actually not skipped once in the last 3 weeks, but I'll definitely change the tracking force if it may help.

I hadn't noticed this level of sibilance until last night so I just assumed it was album at first, then cartridge after a second album did the same thing. The Shure 92E I swapped into its place is a cheap one I had only used once before switching to the AT.

So far I've been blown away at the quality of sound I've gotten from my old Sony PS-LX510 with the AT92E cartridge. I'm hoping the Shibata stylus will help with these problem albums. If not, I'll be looking into the phono stage output as mentioned above.

I'm newly back into vinyl after 25 years away, and really enjoy it as a break from CD's.

Thanks for all your help.

 

Seems to me they are badly cut records. Because it only happens on certain cuts/albums. And it's not all inner track distortion. Knowing I had a good cart and stylus I figured it was just crappily cut vinyl (and a lot of my albums are pretty old and not always kept pristine...plus used albums picked up over the years from who knows where).

 

It seems to me there are three possible causes for sibilance problems: the source, the system or the ears. Taking the last first, people's sensitivity to sibilance seems to vary greatly and also an individual's sensitivity varies over time. I've found I'm much more sensitive to sibilance having returned to vinyl than I was in the past.

On the big question of source vs. system, really the only way to find out for sure is to take a bunch of your most troublesome LPs and play them on someone else's system, eg your hi-fi dealer's. If the sibilance disappears, then your next step is to go systematically through your system swapping out one component at a time until you find the culprit.

However, I think most of the time it is actually the recordings that are to blame, at least if it's pop/rock music we're talking about. Most of this music is not recorded to audiophile standards and there's no reason why it should be since it's not expected to be played back on audiophile equipment nor is it expected to last for long. There are exceptions of course, and classical music is another matter altogether, but most popular music is not recorded to very high standards and sibilance is just a symptom of that.

 

+1

 

Allow me to be more direct, then ;

If I listen to the CD version of an album and there's no sibilance whatsoever, why would there be some on the vinyl pressing?

I'm talking about the source (vinyl) having inherent sibilance when the CD doesn't. Why is that?

 

I think what Raunchnroll is trying to say is it's not the record that's the cause of the distortion, but rather the equipment's inability to reproduce certain cuts.

I've had situations where I heard sibilance using one cartridge, but the problem disappeared when I switched to a different cartridge. Records that are cut loud, or have a lot of high frequency emphasis can be difficult to track with some cartridge setups.

 

There's a good discussion in this thread: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=87707

 

Thanks, Paradiddle.

Sid Hartha, I understand this. However, I have yet to hear anybody having listened to Coldplay's Parachutes without any sibilance issues.

That's why I was wondering if it's possible that it could be in the vinyl record itself and thus, no playback equipment could play it without the sibilance issues.

 

So is this "input sensitivity" the same as the "impedance" mentioned above by rockitman ?

Very well explained back2vinyl. Thanks for that.

I was chasing Ssibilancce with early recordings by Minnie Riperton. I now have about 6 different copies of albums (LP and CD) or versions thereof with the same sibilance from the same album. It's got to be on the masters. If i hear sibilance now i don't presume getting more of the same will fix it.

Same.
I have made cheap and easy changes i found on Forum and the increase in quality has been huge.

 

I don't think so, but I couldn't tell you what the difference is. I didn't know that properly matching cartridge to phono stage would require a degree in electrical engineering. Perhaps one of the more knowledgeable forum members can help out with this...I haven't a clue how to calculate the gain of my phono stage either, which I guess is also important.

The impedance on both my cartridge and phono stage is listed as 47 k ohms, though, so I'm not sure that's an issue.

 

Sspeaking of which I heard a new vinyl repressing of 'Roger The Engineer' (Yardbirds) and it was VERY sibilant, VERY digital sounding. 180g pressing, heavy jacket, and sounded awful. Far worse than the Edsel cd I bought 20 years ago.

 

The England-pressed 45's from that album have no sibilance (I own a few of them) but if you are listening to the Capitol album version with the gold sticker on the shrinkwrap it is digitally sourced.

 

Thanks for the advice, oddeyo!

Which pressing of this album should I get, then? Do you have any idea?

 

Well you're not using the same chain even if you are ultimately using the same amp + speakers. And you're not using the same media unless it is identical between the digital and the analog. So its a problematic comparison to start with. I think the best advice on this thread is to haul those sibilant records over to other systems for a listen.

I have found on same album - but different pressings or cuts of that album - copies that are 'brighter' than others. But after having 'dialed in' my system I've never found a record to be what I would call sibilant. Bright yes...but not sibilant. Caveat: I have very few 'modern' sourced records i.e. modern recordings transferred from a digital source. I have modern cuttings of older albums though, some of which use digital processing in the chain. I can think of one album I have on the Akarma label - a 1967 psych record which I have on both CD and vinyl. The vinyl is noticeably less bright and smoother while the CD is pretty bright on top. The mastering is very very close between them but I can't say it is identical.

I really do think its a matter of your components or set up or a combination of these. It is possible you have a badly cut record. I should have added that the nature of cutting a lacquer and the process of finalizing a record pressing tends to reduce the liklihood of true sibilance becoming part of the recording itself. But there are millions of records out there - who knows.

 

I got the M97xe and I still hear damn sibilance on SOME records. And once you start to listen for it......

 

Totally agree!! Finding a non sibilant pressing of problematic albums is like chasing rainbows.

 

Yeah Id love to find one of these mystical carts that can "totally eliminate" sibilance. Your description "severely diminish" maybe more apt.
Though, Id take out the word "severely."
If its in the recording, I suggest ya get used to it, mate.
If you listen closely, it can be heard on a digital playback also.
Vinyl really brings it out, unfortunately.

Pisses me off! Sorry, I just have a love/hate relationship with vinyl.