Why is Exile on Main St. held in higher regard than Sticky Fingers?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by slunky, Dec 17, 2014.

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  1. Gersh

    Gersh Forum Resident

    Interesting to read what people say about tempos, production, etc. To me, the songs are mostly very good, it's the arranging, playing, mixing I don't agree with especially on the rockers. Rip This Joint is too fast, and would have benefited from standard rock bass. The guitar licks are too stereotyped ("Berry-Richards") and are starting to sound boring, tossed off. Rocks Off is too cluttered and noisy (in a not good way). Tumbling Dice's breakdown oozes all energy from the song. No longer song before that record that the Stones did is dull in the same way. Eg. Can You Hear Me Knocking keeps up the interest to the end and dynamism, same with Sympathy, Gimme Shelter, etc.

    On Soul Survivor, Keith reprises those quick strummed thrashes he did better on Get Off My Cloud. He started to repeat seriously on Exile, and Taylor was oddly ineffective on the record IMO, a reult of being held back probably and playing in that slide style which was overdone on Exile.

    I think after Sticky Fingers, which is one of the greatest rock albums ever, the Stones were so in, so permanently a part of the scene (legends), the critics didn't want to criticize, no one in the business was going to do that then (or not many I recall). It's the emperor has no clothes thing.

    Jagger knew it later on, he was always honest about the limitations of the record. Still, it has moments as I said, it would have made a great single album with certain songs (acoustic or mostly) and better production. The glistening sound of the three previous records was sorely missed...
     
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  2. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    As I am sure you know, Mick tends to be easily influenced. I remember having a discussion on the IORR forum about ten years ago. In interviews before Exile was released, Mick had described the then "new album" as being 18 songs, straightforward Stones, with a "good mixture of styles that we do", "very rock and roll, very danceable, quite nice". Then, the critics trashed the album, and Mick changed his tune. For years, Mick would say exactly what the critics said - it sounded lousy, he wanted to remix it because his vocals were too low in the mix, there was no direction. Worst of all, he said that he said he didn't understand why the fans loved it so much because there weren't any hits. We came to the conclusion that, despite being the driving force behind the greatest rock band of all time, Mick just doesn't get it sometimes.

    Over the years, the critics did an about-face calling it among the best of all time, and now there's Mick on the recent "Stones in Exile" DVD saying "It's a different kind of record - sprawling, gutsy. The criticism at the time was that it didn't have a direction, but that's what's laudable about it. It exhibits many different styles, often multiple styles within one track. Does it have any hit singles? No, but it wasn't that kind of record."

    So either Mick's changed his mind, or he's on the bandwagon to help sell the reissue or (as I suspect) he still really doesn't get it and is just going with the now-revised views of the critics (in a sense, he's the ultimate hipster).
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
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  3. I think that's just Mick's personality to "go with the flow", and he's never been averse to saying or doing whatever is needed to help promote a project. And while there weren't any monsters here of the scope of "Brown Sugar" or "Honky Tonk Women", "Tumbling Dice" and "Happy" were certainly reasonably successful, and I remember "All Down the Line" getting some early airplay as well.

    Also ironic about the "lack of direction" business, as to me this feels like the Stones' most carefully conceived and sequenced LP of their entire career, with each part of the whole perfectly in place. Maybe this was more by serendipity than actual design, but in any case, for me it's the richest and most satisfying rock album anyone's ever put together.
     
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  4. Pinstripedclips

    Pinstripedclips Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    Size, myth and media hype/focus.
     
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  5. Dave Hoos

    Dave Hoos Nothing is revealed

    I didn't get all of them...just the four 70's albums that Mick Taylor plays on. They all sound superb.
     
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  6. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Ironically, given how much I love Exile On Main Street and that music has had such a huge impact on my life over the last 27 years since I first heard it, I can't argue with any of yer comments, Gersh. Some of the songs' tempos and overall arrangements do leave a little bit to be desired...I agree, considering side two is my favourite of the four Exile sides I would have loved to have seen more of that rootsiness and not quite as much reliance on 'Stones cliches' (or certainly what would become Stones cliches over the years). But, hey, it is what it is- after 44 years I'd say we're all used to how Exile sounds now. It wouldn't be Exile if it were any different, it'd probably be more like Sticky Fingers dragged out to double album length, wouldn't it?:p
    As I've said before -maybe even earlier in this discussion- I think one of Jagger's problems with Exile is it has too much of Keith's stamp on it and not as much of Mick's own. On Exile, for the first time in a long time in their career Mick Jagger wasn't in the driver's seat, as it were, on a Stones project (presumably he had more influence at the later Sunset Sound sessions but certainly not at Nellcote), it was almost always down to Keith. Keith's house, Keith's schedule, mainly Keith's arrangements etc. For a control freak like Jagger that must have been a hard pill to swallow and no doubt colours his opinion on the whole Exile period to this day.
     
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  7. Dave Hoos

    Dave Hoos Nothing is revealed

    Possibly. Then again, it's probably only half the album that was recorded at Nellcote and those were just basic tracks anyway. So, Mick would've been in the drivers seat for the remainder (which is the bulk of the recording, overdubbing and mixing).

    Some people are never happy.
     
  8. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Meh...after knowing one another sixty-odd years or however long it's been now I'm am sure Jagger and Richards are both well accustomed (and used to) one another's various idiosyncrasies...
     
  9. Dave Hoos

    Dave Hoos Nothing is revealed

    ...so much so that they seem to spend as little time together as they possibly can. Which can't be that easy when they're touring.
     
  10. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    What did Keith say in his book? "I haven't visited Mick's dressing room in twenty years"? Kinda sad, actually.
     
  11. Dave Hoos

    Dave Hoos Nothing is revealed

    Really sad. Make them all use one dressing room. It would make things interesting.
     
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  12. Dexter

    Dexter Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Virginia
    I've often been puzzled by this as well. "Exile" sounds muddy, which I guess brings it down just a notch for me. "Sticky Fingers" is one of my two favorite LPs of all time (the other being "Cosmo's Factory").
     
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  13. Gersh

    Gersh Forum Resident

    I really thought that was shocking, how can you run a band on that basis.. (creatively)?
     
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  14. Dave Hoos

    Dave Hoos Nothing is revealed

    Has to be another reason why the standard of the songwriting, at first, dipped (mid '70's), then took a huge nose dive when the huge stadium, modern era Stones tours took over (late '80's to now).

    They never see each other, except for rehearsing set lists, or performing. No wonder so much of the later material sucks.
     
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  15. search&destroy

    search&destroy Well-Known Member

    'cause its a double album?:nyah:
     
  16. awsop

    awsop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    It’s a matter of sound.
    Exile On Main Street sounds special, off the beaten track. It took me years to appreciate it and i was not the only one. Listen to those guitars. Listen to the first 10 seconds of the album. It sums it all up pretty well, it really rocks off (whatever that exactly means).

    Sticky Fingers is just great. It may have the better songs. It’s more like everyone’s friend.
    But it misses the kick between the legs i got from EOMS.
     
  17. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Even Mick and Keith have said it: for the most part after Exile, it became either "Mick songs" or "Keith songs", but rarely "Mick and Keith songs"- considering they can barely stand to look at one another I bet it's been years, if not decades, since those two actually sat down and wrote a song together from scratch (as opposed to helping finish off a tune one or the other already started). To me that is even sadder than Keith not visiting Mick's dressing room in twenty years...
     
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  18. awsop

    awsop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    The LP in the 70s sounded muddy, indeed. Probably also because of the hifi equipment in those days.
    I don't remember i was much impressed by the CD release of Virgin in the 90s.
    However, the 2010 Universal release is crystal clear with a fine, full low.
     
  19. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Think Let It Bleed is superior to Sticky Fingers. Sticky is a boogie record . Where as Bleed is stadium rock. The Stones two serious albums are Beggars & Bleed.
     
  20. fortherecord

    fortherecord Senior Member

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Why is Exhile On Main St. held in higher regards than Their Satanic Majesties Request?
     
  21. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    Because it's better and more consistent.
     
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  22. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    Sticky Fingers isn't a boogie record. Moonlight Mile, Sister Morphine, Wild Horses, I Got The Blues and You Gotta Move are not boogie tracks at all. If anything, it's lower key than Let It Bleed. Jagger himself has said he thought playing the entire Sticky Fingers album live might not work because there were too many slower songs.
     
  23. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Lacks the majestic power of Gimme Shelter.
     
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  24. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    Well, my 3 favorite Stones songs are Gimme Shelter, Can't You Hear Me Knocking and Jumpin' Jack Flash.
     
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  25. gpg6212

    gpg6212 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    USA
    Exile is just the complete package. Sticky Fingers has many great songs but often feels barely cohesive. I find it hard to listen to, frankly. And, even without that, I even think the individual songs on Exile mostly beat out the Sticky Fingers songs.

    For instance

    All Down the Line > Brown Sugar
    Torn and Frayed > Sway
    Happy > Bitch

    And even more examples. Nothing beats Wild Horses, pt. 2 of Cant You Hear Me Knocking, Sister Morphine, and Midnight Mile, though
     
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