SH Spotlight Why the new "LOUDNESS CRAZE" in digital mastering really robs music of life..

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Dec 28, 2006.

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  1. Metoo

    Metoo Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain (EU)
    I understand that the music is being often (if not always) delivered now on mp3 files.
     
  2. proufo

    proufo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bogotá, Colombia
    Re: Why the new "LOUDNESS" craze in digital mastering really robs music of life..

    Because it involves another payment to a post-producer that is claimed to have a magic touch.

    Very few dare to touch a subject that involves making your industry less of an specialty and more of a commodity. Thanks, Steve!

    One could also ask why separate CD transports exists, or more precisely, why designs are made that make the data retrieval section a factor in the sonic quality of the equipment. The answer is greed, of course, but the so-called "consumer" publications refuse to call those designs a rip-off.

    Or why software is bloated but faulty in key issues upgrade after upgrade, or why cars are becoming unbelivably complex. For example, are you aware that the trend for the coming years is that you'll have to change rotors (discs) when you change brake pads?

    A consumer champion is badly needed now, sort of a 21st century Ralph Nader.
     
  3. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Senior Member

    Not sure that makes sense - your "average music 'listener'" wouldn't be able to tell the difference, I wouldn't think.
     
  4. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    A CD I'm glad that hasn't been remastered since it's original release is the Annie movie soundtrack, which indeed sounds great on excellent vinyl and on CD.
     
  5. Batears52

    Batears52 Senior Member

    Location:
    Near Baltimore, MD
    I agree...if a station wants to take Steve's mastering of Minute By Minute, rip "What A Fool Believes" off of it & crush thru their audio chain...would their average listener be able to tell? I doubt it.

    When I was growing up I certainly expected the records I bought...even the 45's...to sound better than what I heard on the radio. True, it was AM radio, but considering the way FM sounds today, it's about the same! I would be more upset when an album didn't have the same version of the song that I knew.

    Dexter
     
  6. Feisal K

    Feisal K Forum Resident

    Location:
    Malaysia
    another article.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07006/750696-96.stm

    maybe the loudness is being heard

     
  7. John B Good

    John B Good Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    NS, Canada
    Re: Why the new "LOUDNESS" craze in digital mastering really robs music of life..

    Or, as Mel Brooks put it, "Gentlemen, we have to protect our phoney-baloney jobs!" :D
     
  8. proufo

    proufo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bogotá, Colombia
    Re: Why the new "LOUDNESS" craze in digital mastering really robs music of life..

    My previous electric toothbrush was easy to share and had a small head that forced me to use less toothpaste. Replacement heads are no longer available.

    The new one is virtually impossible to share, has a large head that invites users to use more toothpaste and may (I believe so but can't be sure) not work as good as the old one.

    Consumers are more and more seen as a company assett, the "userbase", from which the most revenue must be extracted, and not as customers.
     
  9. John B Good

    John B Good Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    NS, Canada
    Re: Why the new "LOUDNESS" craze in digital mastering really robs music of life..


    Can't agree with you more.

    I used to work in government, and coined the phrase "make-work fake-work" to describe most of what goes on there.

    And, to get back to the original program, now, look what they are doing to my songs :(
     
  10. proufo

    proufo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bogotá, Colombia
    Re: Why the new "LOUDNESS" craze in digital mastering really robs music of life..

    My favorite Spanish-language singer-songwriter latest album was post-produced by a guy called Brian "Big Bass" Gardner at Bernie Grundman Mastering. The album is unlistenable (Yordano's Secretos de la noche). Some of the fault may be in the original recording/production.
     
  11. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    If you are still reading this thread ... I came across these two links while looking for something else. The first is by Bob Speer ...

    http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicrange.htm

    and the second is on his site, but he does not know the author.

    http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicdeath.htm

    There is a nice graph on the first link showing the increase from 1985 to 2005 of the average signal level (and by inference, the decrease in available headroom). The information on the site is under copyright so may not be reproduced here.

    The second link shows waveforms from Bryan Adams - Cuts Like a Knife (1983), Willie Nelson - What a Wonderful World (1988), George Michael - Faith (1987), Amy Grant - Heart In Motion (1991), The Rembrandts - L.P. (1995), and Ricky Martin (1999).

    Two really excellent articles.
     
  12. Metoo

    Metoo Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain (EU)
    You seem to be describing the industry's point of entropy on this post, the point when the business 'crosses the line' and slowly but surely starts to undermine itself.
     
  13. Metoo

    Metoo Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain (EU)
    That's the law that moves the market, which basically means we are f****d. It is also what makes the regular person think that audiophiles are snobs.

    From "Almost Famous":

    Lester Bangs: So, you're the one who's been sending me those articles from your school newspaper.
    William Miller: I've been doing some stuff for a local underground paper, too.
    Lester Bangs: What, are you like the star of your school?
    William Miller: They hate me.
    Lester Bangs: You'll meet them all again on their long journey to the middle.
     
  14. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    I've carefully listened to the Danielle Peck and the Taylor Swift CDs both put out by Big Machine and mastered by Hank Williams and the CDs are very much over-compressed although they are both very talented pop-country artists with Taylor's voice very smooth and Danielle's voice having the "twang" that so many people here like and some tracks sound better than others from an audiophile perspective. BTW, complaining to the record companies and artists does not necessarily help matters at all and most such complaints are ignored.
     
  15. Metoo

    Metoo Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain (EU)
    If this is the case, then it would seem that the only three means of sounding off on this are:

    a) the Internet (as in the case of this forum and others)

    b) the media in general (such as in articles or comments as ways of exposing the damage the loudness craze is doing)

    c) spreading the word among friends and neighbors
     
  16. Spirit Crusher

    Spirit Crusher Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mad Town, WI
    Is it really that the consumer is driving the market? If the record companies had never started brick-wall mastering, the consumer wouldn't know any better. Sure, there's still the perceived aural improvement of louder, but my question is: would the average music consumer really pass on music they liked, regardless of how loud it is? Would Joe Meathead really pass on buying the latest Slayer if it weren't super hot? I don't think so. If Kevin Shirley hadn't posted on his blog that Maiden's new record "isn't mastered", I don't think anyone would have noticed and it would have sold millions in any case. I think the average consumer will go for the music, not how loud (or not) it is.
     
  17. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
  18. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Whoa!
     
  19. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    This goes to show the influence of this forum.
     
  20. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Well, sometimes I wonder if we aren't bitching to the wrong people. We have been complaining to the "industry", when we should be complaing and teaching the unwashed masses.
     
  21. Spirit Crusher

    Spirit Crusher Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mad Town, WI
    But most people won't stop buying music, regardless of the sound quality (I mean that if people can hear that brickwalled mastering sounds crappy, most don't care). Somehow, both the music-buying public have to be taught that louder remasters/masters are not necessarily "better", becuase without that, the industry people won't be convinced that they won't lose sales if their record isn't as brutally loud as the competition.
     
  22. John B Good

    John B Good Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    NS, Canada
    Thanks. That link is a keeper.
     
  23. Metoo

    Metoo Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain (EU)
    Then it should not be called "the loudness wars" but, rather, "the remastering fiasco."
     
  24. soundQman

    soundQman Senior Member

    Location:
    Arlington, VA, USA
    I'm sorry, but this will always remain beyond the ken of Joe Public, no matter how much we may try to spread the word and teach the masses. They will not listen. Audiophile publications explaining good sound have been around for decades, and what impact has any of that had on the public? Zero. They see it as snobbery and expensive nonsense, assuming they even notice its existence. That isn't likely to get better if we try harder. Probably worse, because then we will be seen as snobbish AND pushy and obnoxious. Why advertisers hawking the latest hyped-up rubbish don't get the same negative reaction, I don't know. I guess people have been programmed from birth to accept advertising as long as it is colorful and flashy, and they will even get all enthused and persuaded about the merits of inferior products (take Bose for example). Plus, according to marketing strategists, what people are really buying is an image or feeling about themselves, not a tangible product per se.
     
  25. agentk7

    agentk7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Here is a comment someone made on the youtube video 3 days ago:

    Yeah, we're really making progress with that video.

    I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in this loooong thread, but perhaps a real example should have been used in the video instead of the "artificial bricking" that was done. It shouldn't be too hard to find a CD originally mastered in the 80s that has been brick-mastered recently. Maybe even also including the top 5 billboard cds of 1989 compared to the top 5 billboard cds of 2006.
     
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