Why were the Genesis remixes reviled, but Steven Wilson's remixes are admired?

Was it because the Genesis stuff was mastered too loud, but the remixes themselves weren't that bad? Was it because the Genesis remixes were too different to the originals, compared to say, Wilson's Tull projects? Was it because Wilson is just a lot better at it than the other guy?

Or was it because the Genesis remix project was the first big remix project of its kind?

Hmmmm....

 

The remixes and mastering sucked for Genesis, and they're very revisionistic. Also, they tried to rewrite history by deleting the original mixes and making only the remixes available. Whomever came up with that idea...

Epic fail.

 

There's a much difference in remixing philosophy between the Genesis remixes and Steven Wilson's

Genesis remixes were made to impress, to show off sonic range. At the same time, it was an attempt to modernize the sound
The result? awful deal of compression and equalization all over the place.

On the other hand, Steven Wilson philosophy is to remain true to the original mixes and time and context the band recorded the music.

For better or worse, it had to happen to have a bad mastering job (Peter Mew on 'Thick As A Brick' in particular) to make a drastic change in the way Steven decided to present his mixes. Ever since, IMHO, ALL Steven Wilson mixes have bettered the originals

By the way, Genesis remixes are Tony Banks'.
The much blamed Nick Davis basically did what Tony wanted to hear. Unfortunatelly, history has proven that Tony Banks isn't the best musician for artistic decisions

 

I happen to like both. That being said, I didn't start listening to Genesis until 2007 so the remixes are the versions I "grew up" with. So by the time I got around to picking up all the original mixes, they sounded smothered by comparison. This is likely opposite to most fans' experiences whom grew up with the classic mixes and masterings, and were mostly appalled by the drastic and wholesale changes to the catalog. This reaction probably had a lot to do with the Genesis mixes being reviled, at least around here. We are just talking about the stereo mixes, right? Because the surround mixes are fantastic. Even if one prefers the sound of the original mixes, he is doing himself a disservice by not experiencing the DTS 96/24 mix at least once.

The Genesis remixes also get a bad rap for being loud. Compressed yes, but loud? Nursery Cryme is DR9. A Trick of The Tail, DR9. From where I'm sitting the compression on individual instruments helps elements that were previously buried in the mix stand out. The compression is not as heavy-handed as it's made out to be. Maybe my system isn't revealing enough to make a difference but the remixes get a lot more play around here.

Steven Wilson's mixes are admired because they're just that much better. Dude is just a genius. Period. What he's done for the King Crimson catalog is astonishing. His work speaks for itself.

 

hey..heyyy...HEYYYY!!!!! Don't you dare touch my Tony!!..LOL!!

 

The King Crimson 5.1 mixes are that good I would say these are the reference discs for 5.1 music audio.

 

I am theee biggest ...well..one of the biggest Genesis fans and have had the very good fortune of meeting Tony Banks twice and been in touch with him since 1985. I remember him saying that they tried to keep to the originals but bring some things out of the mix to enhance it. Not colour it. I know Peter Gabriel was a small part of the process for the early albums as well.
Having said that anything Tony does I would normally be totally biased. However, I was very very impressed with the CD/DVD remixes at first when they came out.. Not so much the remastering.
When I switched back to vinyl I bought the two vinyl box sets and I can honestly say...terrible terrible. Still love the remixes as there is a bit more life to them than the originals. BUT that damn remastering has got to be the worst I have ever heard. And Then There Wee Three is thee worst ever. I will say though that A Trick Of The Tail and The Lamb sound pretty good overall but not the best. They all sound like Genesis sandwiches. I will pay a hefty price but I am going to get the Classic Records reissues from Nursery Cryme to The Lamb to compare.
I will definitely go for the original pressings for the later albums. There was no need to remaster anything from Abacab onwards. All those albums sound amazing without any remixing or remastering.
I am a HUGE Steven Wilson fan as well. I am dying to hear his remixed Tears For Fears, XTC and some King Crimson. Plus I want his solo, Porcupine Tree and Blackfield albums. Really can't wait for those. I truly respect Steven as a songwriter,musician, producer, engineer.

 

Very simple.

The Genesis stuff is bust-your-balls squeezed to death and that's all the consumer gets.

The Wilson stuff is has 5 to 7 different options to choose from without the sound being smashed to pieces.

 

I agree with al of this. I actually grew up with the original Genesis mixes but I appreciate the remixes for what they are...a different way to hear their music.

That said, it would have been nice to hear what Steve Wilson could have done with the Genesis catalog as his work with King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull and XTC has been stellar. (also his one-off's with Caravan, Gentle Giant and Hawkwind)

 

Its all been said. Horrible compression. Instruments just seem wrongly placed. Duke is particularly bad. The drums are just a mess of noise with no real clarity.

 

I think the remixes improved on the following albums:
Tresspass
Nursery Cryme
Foctrot
Lamb
Wind And Withering (despite the horrible mastering)
And Then They Were Three (again despite the mastering)
Invisible Touch

One album that definateli couldnot be improved is ATOTT. That might just be tve best sounding album of the seventies.

 

The thing that really set me against the remixes was the compression applied to the cymbals. It just hurt my ears. I get the impression that many if not most of the early drum tracks had little separation, and if they wanted to boost the levels on them with compression, the cymbals would get it too.

A bad choice. Alan Parsons once said that the secret to the sound of Dark Side Of The Moon, was that he compressed everything, except the drums. I think that’s the right formula for a great sound, and the Genesis remix/remasters fell on the other side of that formula. Way on the other side. Disastrously so.

The Gabriel era albums are better. I guess Peter pulled them back from the brink a bit.

 

This is the way I feel. I think any remixing to classic material is going to find more than it's fair share of major criticism to the point of even sheer hate. But I am very open to it. I never get rid of original mixes and I often find a lot of what gets remixed to be my preferred mixes for certain songs... even some of the Genesis tracks. And The Who. People hate those Who remixes from the 90's, but I really love a lot of them...

However, the mastering on these albums was not done well. At least not for audiophiles. And that makes a big difference too.

Now (other than Genesis) it seems that all of these artists who had done remixes are going back to the original mixes. Which means artists like The Who & John Lennon who had some cool remixes, with poor mastering, will probably not remaster those new mixes and they will become the 'rare' mixes.

 

I usually don't like when things I'm familiar with get tampered with. Genesis remixes are no exception: every noticeable change in the remixes has me shaking my head disapprovingly - this is not the way it's supposed to be. Steven Wilson's remixes, however, have that astounding self-consistency about them that invites to listen rather than compare, which makes any deviation from the original mix all the more palatable. Genesis remixes are littered with tiny things that seem "wrong" to me, but from all the Wilson remixes I have heard I can only recall one instant where I have thought his mixing decision has been somewhat questionable. That's why I admire Wilson's remixes - and "revile" Genesis.

 

Agree fully with the first two albums, agree somewhat with Lamb, Wind and Three. The Foxtrot remix ist acceptable, but I like the V/C more.

Another one I like in it's remixed form is the 1983 s/t.

 

The Gabriel era remixes are acceptable. Trespass benefited the most from the remixes. Now that being said I wish Steven Wilson would remix the Gabriel years
for 2015!

 

Have I missed one? Which HW title are you talking about, can you give me a link or some more details please.

 

Warrior on the Edge of Time. It got a rather lavish box set treatment.

 

Already said... the remix may be liked or not, i do like some, but the mastering can be defined by only one word: horrible.
SW has a different philosophy for his 5.1 remixes, but that's a philosophy-only question: when it has been discovered the bad mastering on the first Thick As A Brick release, EMI did replace the discs with a correct one. That's not philosophy, it's sound.

 

https://www.burningshed.com/store/progressive/product/483/4651/

It also exists as a cheaper 2CD/1DVD set.

 

The problem with Nick Davies' mixing is that he loves everything upfront, as evidenced by all the other albums he has mixed. I think it is the wrong approach for Genesis as the music needs a lot of variation, light and shade, to create that sense of mystery and atmosphere.

The mastering is to blame, but so is the mixing: the amount of compression he applied to the vocals and the drums for instance is cartoonish, borderline unprofessional. Also almost everything seems EQ'd within the mix to give it a more modern sound... I suspect there is also some noise reduction on individual instruments.

Another problem is the fact that they didn't remastered or even just presented the original mixes alongside the remixes, and now the remixes have taken their place everytime there is a reissue.

All this never happened with Steven Wilson's work. He is much, much more respectful of the original mixes. We would have had the improved sound quality without the butchering.

 

Thanks for the info. Not the hugest HW fan by any means these days but that release definitely passed me by. Where was I?!!

 

I'm curious - what was that one instant?
I've loved what he's done with the Crimson catalogue, but for some reason I prefer the earlier Fripp 30th anniversary mix of Islands. I can't quite put my finger on it but there are subtle differences that Wilson has introduced that somehow just don't quite work for me. A couple of points in "The Sailor's Tale" which don't seem to have quite the ooomph that they had before, and the title track itself seems a little weaker. I can't really explain why. but this is the only Crim album so far that I've felt that way. The rest of SW's Crim masters are wonderful.

 

I haven't been able to figure out why, but on Caravan's In the Land of Grey and Pink the section of Nine Feet Underground where Richard Sinclair sings the Wilson remix fails to engage me like the original does, as if something wasn't quite "there".

 

Maybe due to the awful Dullby compression these poor remixes have been subjected to?