Wonder Woman (2017)

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Encuentro, Jul 23, 2016.

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  1. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    There was much more to think about in Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises as well as Marvel titles like Iron Man, relative to Wonder Woman. The element of the Joker as an agent of chaos and the use of triangulating his location using every cell phone in Gotham was hugely interesting and more apropos than anything in Wonder Woman, which shunned reality and current events for a more philosophical stance. But even Spider-Man had more interesting philosophical points in the "with great power comes great responsibility" theme. The third movie was a lesson in jealousy, if you could get past the campy elements. Your comment about the destruction of the cities being attributable to the heroes rather than the villians in Marvel movies means you really missed out on the moral issues in these films.
     
  2. Free_Hat

    Free_Hat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Van Isle
    Y'know, this is also a pretty good description of Hellboy... :cheers:
     
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  3. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I disagree with your points entirely and my remark about destruction of cities was tongue in cheek.

    Sorry you didn't like Wonder Woman. I liked it much better than you did.
     
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  4. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I've no doubt you disagree with my points, which is why I substantiated them with actual themes of the movies so they could be further discussed relative to WW. The discussion started because you saw her as more ethical in absolute terms, but for example Tony Stark who had inherited his father's business in weapons development/distribution gave up that business in the process of becoming a super hero and fighting evil. So I think your point requires further substantiation because that on the face of it involved more character dev than Diana.
     
  5. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    No, I really think I can hold my opinions without substantiating them to you. I've seen all of the movies you mentioned multiple times and none of them provoked actual thought in me the way Wonder Woman did. It didn't do it for you, and that's OK. The fact that Wonder Woman had a more philosophical stance is exactly why I found it more thought provoking. The contrast of billionaire Tony Stark turning from weapons manufacture to clean energy and superheroism and "with great power comes great responsibility" were thought provoking when I first encountered them in comic books over 40 years ago. Now, they're pretty obvious. I didn't buy a whole heckuva lot of Wonder Woman comics back in the day but I don't remember her story being quite so interesting as it was presented in the movie.

    But I get it, you didn't like the movie, and nothing I say about it is going to change your mind, and I'm OK with that.
     
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  6. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I think you pretty much nailed what the script - and Gadot - got right, and what elevated the film above the usual superhero, city-trashing, revenge-driven tropes.
     
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  7. Blimpboy

    Blimpboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Walton, KY
    I would like to know what most people who enjoyed the film as an above average, thought provoking super hero film knew of Wonder Woman before they saw this film. If you knew only of what you saw on TV or if, and when you read the comics. Wonder Woman has stood out as unique in the DC Comics world for her strong moral code and belief system. There are many story lines that delve into her different world view of Superman and Batman. I personally have given up reading them of late due to the constant re-booting the entire line seems to have every five years. But the origin story that George Perez and Greg Potter devised in 1987 in line with Greek mythology is pretty much the norm thru out. Helps to define the noble bearing in Diana.
     
  8. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I read some of the Silver Age comic books in the 1970's, and probably read about her more consistently in the context of the JLA but I was never a big fan. I certainly wasn't reading comic books in 1987, my cut off date was about ten years before that. I was aware of her moral code and belief system and I thought that the movie did an excellent job communicating that, better than I expected. When I first understood that she was going to be on a WWI battlefield, I thought how the hell are they going to pull that off, chick in a bathing suit facing down tanks and mortar. But they did it most splendidly IMO.
     
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  9. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Three good scenes in the movie.
    Fight on the beach,
    Amazonian wire jumping.
    WW trench running bullets bouncing of bracelet. And .,
    WW taking on bad guys in room, swivel kicks.
     
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  10. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    I suppose it comes down to what you want out of a film when you are watching it, but I liked most of the stuff in London and would be on-board with an Etta spin-off movie. :)
     
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  11. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I'll take your word for it! :laugh::righton:
     
  12. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    The goal isn't to change each other's mind. It's to have an interesting discussion on a discussion forum. These films are plenty interesting enough to warrant those kinds of conversations. The distinction between the WW philosophy of morality as opposed to many of the other super hero movies is that WW blurred any notion that war can be justifiable in a battle of good vs evil. It's worth discussing whether that was the attraction here. It's also worth pointing out that the ultimate bad guy was posing as a general for the allies. I found this a bit icky in that it advanced the film's premise that there are no good guys and bad guys in war. The philosophy seemed to be that all war is evil; therefore all parties are equally evil. It's another reason I didn't care for the movie.
     
  13. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I'd have to go back quite a long time to find a movie about wartime that didn't advance the idea that there are no good guys or bad guys in war (or at least that there's good and bad guys on both sides) - it's been a familiar theme in war stories at least since Vietnam. However, I don't think that the twist of positioning Ares as a general on the side of the Allies necessarily is meant to demonstrate that the Allies are as bad as the Germans, only that Ares is a slippery devil who believes he can cause the most carnage on the side that's supposedly fighting a defensive war. If it turns out that the Big Bad is exactly who you thought he was all along, that's not much of a surprise, is it? Movies like this often have such twists, they aren't usually meant to make philosophical points. In any case I think that one of the more interesting themes in the movie is that Diana starts out from a position of total naivete, thinking that Ares is the cause of all human conflict and that defeating him will restore the entire world to peace, but she eventually comes to understand that human beings can be evil all on their own apart from the influence of gods. Of course this isn't a brand new concept to me but I wasn't expecting this movie to go in that direction.
     
  14. Yovra

    Yovra Collector of Beatles Threads

    Amusing movie, but it seems to promise to be "more" than an superhero-/action-and that didn't really work for me. The actors/talent is there, but under-used. Don't know why the "long flashback"-style of storytelling was used..
     
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  15. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    As with most origin stories (unless you keep redoing/rebooting them), there is an almost built in sense of interest, anticipation and discovery in telling that story, which often makes the origin movie quite a bit better than the sequels. Once the origin story is told, then where do you go from there - standard superheroing stuff? How will Wonder Woman 2 handle the transition to 'routine' and will it become another production line superhero movie (not that there wasn't any 'automation' in part 1)?
     
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  16. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    A very good question - it could easily become another city-destroying revenge quest in the second movie if they aren't careful.
     
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  17. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    Location:
    Midwest
    I thought it was just ok. I did know who the bad guy was gonna ultimately turn out to be....and I wish the epic battle at the end was a little more action packed. It seems those things always end up as a slow as molasses, walk back and forth, lot of talking, throw some stuff around type of ordeal.
     
  18. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    Will be interesting to see her in present times (again) and they could make it interesting if her naiveté is gone and how she implements and interprets her ethical code in the 21st century. . . .

    Or then again it could be just another DC movie, an dif that seems to be the case from reviews I'll skip it.
     
  19. neo123

    neo123 Senior Member

    Location:
    Northern Kentucky
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  20. Rocker

    Rocker Senior Member

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Not a big comic/superhero-movie fan..... but Gal Gadot is adorable!

     
  21. Humbuster

    Humbuster Staff Emeritus

    She's hot. Kimmel is annoying, IMHO.
     
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  22. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    Absolutely. Cutest mouth/smile since Ashley Judd/Meg Ryan in their heyday.
     
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  23. Higlander

    Higlander Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Florida, Central

    A lot of it was enjoyable, the beginning the build up of coming to WWI time period and some of the characters, but some of the CGI was just not realistic enough for me and my wife, and we both kept looking at the clock during the last 15 minutes or so.....it just drug on and on,,,CGI and Crazy fighting that was not even remotely physically possible stuff, even if they are strong etc.
    Just seemed to carry on, in an illogical manner, as if neither could win,but yet every so often both would find the "Power" to even fight harder/better..why not just go all out and kill him to begin with......Yawn!!


    Rant: I get she can "Deflect" bullets, but why during the big "Cross the no mans land" scene, and the bombed out town, did the enemy not just fire from multiple directions Ever??

    I mean they were shooting almost one at a time waiting for her to face them so she could have time to see where they were coming from and then deflect the bullets......WHY?

    Then later it basically seems as if she is totally invincible anyways,.....so why bother deflecting bullets at all, and not just Hurdle or Jump several hundred feet at a time as she was shown doing in other scenes?

    Was it to just have a pointless scene of her deflecting bullets, that would not hurt her really anyways or she could have easily jumped over....??

    I got a feeling they wanted her invincible at times, and at other times they forgot or wanted to make her seem maybe vulnerable, but in the end, it seemed to be muddled storytelling.

    Which was it for real?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
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  24. Higlander

    Higlander Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Florida, Central
    The Red headed secretary was about the only real seeming person.:agree:
     
  25. Jack White

    Jack White Senior Member

    Location:
    Canada
    "The goal isn't to change each other's mind. It's to have an interesting discussion on a discussion forum."

    Someone should plaster that quotation at the top of every discussion page.
     
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