Would the Monkees have released better albums had Chip Douglas stayed?

I am utterly confused how anyone can be "utterly confused" by anyone else's preference in music, thus their admiration for those they like. Why is it mind-boggling that people (mainly kids at the time) enjoyed a pretty funny TV show - it did win an Emmy Award - and those who were cast in that show, who sang on the records, then actually played on the records. Just because you, or everyone else on earth for that matter, think they were "a fair rock band, not a good rock band at all" does not really matter to me nor probably any other fans of the Monkees. In fact, I couldn't care less how you rate the Monkees. Sure its kind of cool that people like Little Steven, Tom Petty, Felix Cavaliere and others like the Monkees but that really doesn't enhance nor lessen my experience in listening to the records, seeing them in concert, watching an episode of the show or reading a book about the making of their movie. If there wasn't anything to the Monkees, then why after 20 years, when they went back out on tour and their shows were back on MTV, did a whole other generation of fans emerge. It is not like people were forced to go out and put 10 of their albums in the Top 200 at the same time at that point. You might not get it, but there are some people who just don't get why you might really like Crosby, Stills and Nash enough to have them as your avatar. To each his (or her) own.

 

And if you check out rjp a bit, you'll find that he enjoys Christopher Cross, Dan Fogelberg, and the television show Survivor. Yes, to each his own, but those who live in glass houses etc....

 

They're an act...more like The Mamas And The Papas. They are no more accomplished in the studio than The Beach Boys. There are musicians in the group, but for the records they used the Wrecking Crew....just like almost everybody. They're not The Beatles or The Turtles, a group of excellent musicians who can cut their own records. They did it once to do it, but they knew better later it was not necessary. Why are The Monkees singled out for not being a band........they're an act.

 

amazing how those who get offended by things i say always seem to throw a CSN bashing in just for good measure

and i wholeheartedly agree with readr (right above this post) in that they were an act, quite possibly the best way i have ever seen it said.

and you all really don;t have to take things so personally, i think, at least as far as i can tell, people are still allowed to have opinions, even if you don;t always agree with them.

 

and your point is???????

and, for what its worth, other than nesmith, dan fogelberg had more talent in his toenails than any of the other 3 monkees.

 

You'd best get your facts straight. The Beach Boys themselves played on the majority of their albums, and the wrecking crew were occasionally used before Brian stopped touring, in late 64. From that point until 1967, Brian used them heavily. Would you like a list of the songs from each album 1962-66 and whom played on the tracks?!

 

If you are referring to me, I am not offended. I pointed out, using mostly your own words, that it is an individual choice as to what you like. Also, was not dissing CSN, again was just pointing out you like someone enough to show the world. It matters little to you that I do not like them or if they are not "great" in others eyes.

 

and....i am quite uncomfortable with the idea that you are stalking me to get info about me, quite uncomfortable.

 

Have you thought about a decaffeinated coffee?

 

Which was the worst mistake both bands made. Pop was both bands forte.

 

Davy Jones said he did *not* speak for the others, but that for himself, he preferred to be called "an act". (He's on record as having said that in 1968. Give "The Monkees-Talk Down Under" a spin and he says it during one of the press interviews.)

They used The Wrecking Crew far less than they're thought to have used them... Not saying they didn't use studio musicians, they did of course, but The Wrecking Crew themselves: Not as much as believed...

 

You're right, The Beach Boys did record their own music early on, when they were, primarily, a surf band. When they switched to pop music, they used the Wrecking Crew. I meant no disrespect to Beach Boys fans....just making a point that it seems okay for all the bands at the time to use the Wrecking Crew, but The Monkees are shamed for it. During the time with Chip Douglas, they were more like a The Beach Boys 63-64 era.

 

Anyone else enjoy the Monkees' 'Riu Chiu' as a tag to one of their TV shows?

 

I do...

BTW: There's a studio version of "Riu Chiu" on "The Monkees-Missing Links, Vol. 2", but I'm guessing you're already aware of that... For those that may not be, it was recorded in 08/67, and it was prepared and arranged by Chip Douglas, who also sang on it.

 

I wasn't; thanks. The one on the TV show...was that as 'live' as possible? Besides liking the song from way back, that live, spontaneous aspect impressed me.

 

It's one thing to be rooted in pop. It's another thing to be marketed like the damned Cowsills. The Turtles had more going on than that. As for the Monkees, pop wasn't their forte. Pop was Davy Jones' forte. Michael Nesmith was more in tune with the emerging FM market, and Micky Dolenz was a rocker to the bone.

 

I think the version on the show is 100% live... If anyone knows otherwise, please let me know...

(There are other instances of them being "live" on the show: The group playing "Steppin' Stone" live at the beginning of "Too Many Girls" and I'm quite sure Peter and Micky were singing "Tear the Top Right Off My Head" live on "Hitting the High Seas"... I think Mike and Peter were playing "Don't Call on Me" live on guitars during the "Monkee Mother" episode too.)

 

I'd agree on all three points... Also have to add that Peter Tork's love at the time seemed to be that of being a "pass the hat Folk singer".

 

The world is gradually getting over it but what a traumatic 50 years of "what if"?

 

The Monkees and the Turtles were marketed in the way that they would sell the most records. Colgems and White Whale were extremely successful "doing it their way", and to say that they should have approved a change in marketing philosophy just because the members of the band were getting bored doing Pop music (because of what was going on around them) is in my opinion, ludicrous. Youre talking nice, commercial talents here, not Brian Wilson/Lennon/Macca/Dylan here, if you understand my point.

As for the Turtles having more going on that that.......where? I have every Turtles Lp, and when they did
Pop, they were fabulous, especially the lead vocals. When they strayed away from Pop, the quality dropped.

As For Pop being Davy Jones forte and not the others, I agree with you only in the Case of Nesmith, who was a Country guy through and through. I dont think his songs were in any tune with the FM market. His original songs, while good, had more to do with The Bakersfield sound of Buck Owens than any FM culture. Jones, for sure was a Pop oriented artist. Dolenz? Disagree. Dolenz light and chirpy voice sounds at his absolute best when he's a doing a "Sometime in The Morning" pop like track....there was no one better at that than he. When he sings Rock, like on "No Time" or 'Rose Marie", there is something missing. Sure, he hits all the notes, his phrasing is fine, but the light and airy tamber of his voice really doesnt lend itself to raspy rock, like say, Mike Smith of the DC5.....theres a major difference there. Compare "No Time" with Mike Smiths "You Got What It Takes" to see what I mean. Mickey may have LIKED to sing the rock stuff more, but thats not "Forte". Forte is what you do best. Nobody could sing "I'm A Believer" or "Sometime In The Morning" better than Mickey.

 

As long as you're not on a college campus

 

If they were so successful, then why did they go out of business after the Monkees and the Turtles broke up?

And to be honest, Colgems and White Whale probably made more money from the whole thing than the artists did.

I say this based on what Nesmith and Kaylan/Volman went on to do after their respective bands broke up. They were a little more ambitious than Ron Dante.

I sense that same frustration with the Box Tops vs. Alex Chilton's various projects afterward. The Box Tops recorded some brilliant tunes, but the powers-that-be were always trying to move them towards the middle of the road, ala the Union Gap or the Classics IV. Now THOSE were two bands that were complete commercial entities and were happy to stay that way. However, Alex Chilton was just a little too eclectic to fit in that straitjacket. Being Tommy Roe wasn't his intention.

And I actually like Tommy Roe, too, don't get me wrong. But that wasn't Alex's thing.

Not to me. The Battle Of The Bands and Turtle Soup albums were quite good, in their understated way. Same thing with Shell Shock, which wasn't released until the 80s but did an excellent job of maturing their sound.

You can be pop-oriented without sounding like total candy floss. The Nazz were all about the pop, too, but they could still hold their own as a rock and roll band.

Actually they were. He was coming out of the folk-rock scene when he joined the Monkees, and the country-rock thing was just starting up when he left. If you isolate Nesmith's Monkees tracks on their own, soundwise they're right between Buffalo Springfield and the Byrds...both of whom had more cred in hip rock circles than the Monkees did.

Agree to disagree. I consider "I'm A Believer" a rocking number, myself. Micky probably had the most versatile voice of the three (his soul-man ad-libs on the fade of "I'm A Believer" make the song). He could handle a tender ballad like "Sometime In The Morning" without pouring on the sap, like Davy would have.

 

They didn't play their own instruments on it!

 

Now thats funny!!!

 

It's all good. I was onery this morning...I overslept and was late on starting up my grill/smoker to smoke some bone-in pork shoulders for a picnic this evening. I shouldn't post so in the morning. My bad