Would the White Album Have Worked Better as the "Kinfauns Basement Tapes"?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mbleicher1, May 16, 2018.

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  1. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Planetary Resident

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    I think this is selling The Beatles short in a lot of ways. It came hard on the heels of some really goopy, ambitious psychedelic music that they helped pave the way for. After years of virtually non-stop work, recording, writing and touring, plus the internal tensions you cite (and after the trip to India, which Lennon acidly debunked in "Sexy Sadie") and the loss of Epstein, I think they sound freed in a lot of ways to be themselves on a lot of White's tracks.

    Now, getting a Kinfauns, Basement Tapes style complete recordings would be great to have now. But The Beatles is still a great showcase for the band's considerable talents at the time. They were perhaps less enthusiastic about dressing it up by then.
     
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  2. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

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    the premise in insane to me.....the different sounds and textures are what makes it great. from blackbird to helter skelter to goodnight to revolution #9. dark and brooding beatles are the best beatles
     
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  3. Jack Lord

    Jack Lord Forum Resident

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    Totally agree except that I doubt it is too late. Give it the royal treatment and it will be a big hit.
     
  4. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

  5. Mickey2

    Mickey2 Forum Resident

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    The fact that they were coming apart at the seams was an unstoppable force and inevitable. But one of the other big problems after Pepper was that their egos were getting the best of them and they mistakenly thought they could do no wrong, as evidenced by a good amount of garbage that landed on this record (Wild Honey Pie, Why Don't We Do It In The Road?, Don't Pass Me By, Revolution #9, et al). At least John had sense enough to indulge in a lot of his dumber stuff alone with Yoko shrieking by his side. But they lost sight of what George Martin brought to the table ("I don't want any of your production ****... but I'll use Phil Spector's production **** later"), considering him largely superfluous and "unhip to the scene, man." For this, the White Album and Let It Be suffered greatly, as was ultimately proven with the glorious Abbey Road album, where he again was allowed to sit at the helm and help them make a professional recording.
     
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  6. The Ole' Rocker

    The Ole' Rocker Forum Resident

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    Call it "A Doll's House."
     
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  7. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award

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    Science.
     
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  8. Catfish Stevens

    Catfish Stevens Forum Resident

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    MMT was the last album that was totally 4 track, the 'white album' was a transition album, some were 4 track some were 8 track, don't know which songs are which though.
     
  9. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

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    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Plus there were less elaborate Productions on TWA with a few exceptions. It would have been easier to do it on 4 track with fewer bounces.
     
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  10. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Forum Resident

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    I'd say more than a few. Harrison noted that some of the WA recording was more complicated than Pepper. He's right. I'd argue that a lot of it is equally elaborate, but that's not the story everyone knows.
     
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  11. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
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    There were certainly many that were not, while everything they did in 67 stretched the technology they were using in a way that lessened sound quality.
     
  12. Hardy Melville

    Hardy Melville Forum Resident

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    New York
    I wouldn't have thought so back in the day, but at this point, discussions on these boards being much in support of this notion, I think The White Album is the work by them that most divides Beatles fans as to opinions of it. By comparison the competition between Revolver and Pepper's is really small change. What else is more controversial?

    Count me as one who, while not anywhere seeing it as at the bottom of their efforts, really can't see rating it very highly. What motivates those who think it even their best?

    In order to do so, I think one would have to accept, and not be bothered in the least, by the fact that it is not much in terms of being a collaborative effort. I can't do that. I think where The Beatles were best, and how they got to be the best, was in being greater than the sum of their parts. Where their synergy came in, where the way they instrumentally complemented each other, encouraged each other to bring in new sounds and instruments, and of course where Paul and John helped each other in the songwriting.

    All those positive factors were a diminished or even absent from TWA. It sounds much more like a collection of random efforts by George John and Paul working separately.

    Another thing that might explain a preference for TWA is a relative disfavoring of other of their efforts, and perhaps of other periods, such as the preceding psychedelic period, or one or more that preceded that one. That is a matter of taste, but it is not one I share. I have no problem with the increased presence of a more acoustic sound on TWA, but I don't categorically favor it, either.

    The knowledge of Lennon's heroin use and the ubiquitous presence of Yoko Ono also makes TWA problematic. You can hear both in the music. Despite the presence of some excellent efforts by him on this (Dear Prudence, Julia, Cry Baby Cry and some others), the overall songwriting seems decidedly inferior to earlier periods. And then there's #9. Paul meanwhile also had some very nice songs, but was also allowed too often to go with whimsy and otherwise inferior songs. Even George could have profitably cut his contributions here in half (despite the great While My Guitar).

    So, I just can't see it, and tend to agree with much of what the OP said.
     
  13. raveoned

    raveoned Forum Resident

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    Ambler, PA
    To me, the OP's premise would be understandable had TWA been a failure. But it wasn't. It sold quite well, and is still a favorite album by quite a number of people.

    It's also one of the most varied Beatles albums made, covering all styles of music in one album.

    TWA works, to me, because of its' varied styles. And because of that fragmented style, it showed The Beatles challenged convention in making a complete album with no concept or general architecture in mind, other than to record and release a lot of music written post-Pepper and while in India.

    When I first got into The Beatles, I wasn't as keen on this album. But as I listened to it, got acclimated to it, dug the sound it had, I appreciate it so much more now and love playing it.
     
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  14. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    The vast majority of John's songs for the White Album were written in India, where he was not on any hard drugs (only marijuana most likely).

    And I thought that John's heroin use started in November 1968, AFTER the White Album sessions. I think there is some quote from John saying that him and Yoko had a hard time after Yoko's miscarriage and that was why they started doing heroin regularly at that time. I'm sure they sampled it before, but I don't recall the White Album as being a "heroin" album (which Let It Be was for John). Am I wrong, and was John indeed doing heroin throughout most of the White Album sessions?
     
  15. Morton LaBongo

    Morton LaBongo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Manchester NH
    Though the Unplugged era has had its day, no it's certainly not too late for audiophiles and Beatlefans to get a great-quality official release of this. In fact it'd probably make a great standalone release alongside the (expected) White Album Deluxe if they released all the known tracks. I wouldn't mind paying for the Anthology 3 tracks again if they included everything they have. Off the top of my head I think it's 20-something tracks.
     
  16. Hardy Melville

    Hardy Melville Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    I know about the songwriting and India. I was talking more about the performances.
     
  17. jmxw

    jmxw Fab Forum Fan

    From page 33 of that other White Album thread....
     
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  18. Gila

    Gila Forum Resident

    Acoustic Helter Skelter is boring and slow. The White Album version of it is awesome. Love the Rock Band mix of it that has no fade-outs and fade-ins.

    It would be really nice to have this collection of acoustic demos and/or early takes in good quality as some compilation or alternate album.
     
  19. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Planetary Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA.
    Have to disagree, they sound reinvigorated on some cuts. When they do get together on each other's tracks, its typically exciting ("Prudence", "USSR", "Yer Blues", "Skelter", "Revolution #1", "Me & My Monkey" and "Warm Gun", among others).

    I think them working separately or even without George Martin led to them going with their artistic instincts and writing some fresh songs that excited them beyond the contrivances of the paisley and LSD years.

    IMO, it was the right album at the right time for them. Most of it has also aged very well.
     
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  20. gregorya

    gregorya I approve of this message

    Well, they have to save something for the Centennial Edition... ;)
     
  21. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ca
    They play together on most of the tracks, basically. I guess it has the reputation that it's a bunch of solo recordings because someone said something to that effect, then it gets repeated, etc.? There are examples of solo recordings, or recordings where one Beatle or another wasn't present, in the rest of the catalog. If there's more of them here, well, it's a double album.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  22. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon Thread Starter

    Location:
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    That's another Lennon myth, actually. McCartney - not one to dish on John as a general rule - says in Many Years From Now that John started taking heroin that summer and that it made him much more unpredictable and difficult to communicate with. He also said that's where the language about "monkeys" and "needing a fix" came from, and that that sort of thing made it harder (and scarier) for Paul, George, and Ringo, who weren't going to join John on that path. Now, it may be that during the White sessions, John wasn't using as heavily or wasn't full-blown addicted the way he was by the Let It Be sessions - he certainly contributed a lot more - but Paul's recollections line up with that heroin-y feel on many of John's tracks.
     
  23. SurrealCereal

    SurrealCereal Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I love The White Album for what it is and think the shotgun approach they to with everything on the album is part of what makes it so great. I think the songs would have sounded sort of "walled off"
    from one another even if it was sequenced differently with fewer tracks. The mere fact that they were writing and producing these songs independent of one another is what gives them the disjointed feel. The album may have felt more cohesive if they recorded it all together in a rawer form, but it may well have not been made at all if they had tried that, given the tension during that period and the failure of the Get Back project that followed. Also, it's not just the production that gives the songs mismatched personalities; Their songwriting during that period had grown increasingly weird and individualized. There's no getting rid of the darkness in John's songs, and there's no way they would have fit naturally alongside Paul's, even if they were recorded as the OP suggested. The White Album songs did in a lot of ways lack the joy and energy of their earlier work, but there's no getting around that. It's in the songwriting as much as it is in the production. The the best thing they could do is explore all the strange new mismatched directions to their fullest extend, and I'm glad that's what they did.
     
  24. Chuckee

    Chuckee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate, NY, USA
    No, I miss having real drums. As an archival release, bring it on.
     
  25. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Planetary Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA.
    I think it's also down to some of the tracks like "Blackbird", "Mother Nature's Sun" and "Martha, My Dear", McCartney compositions in this example ("Julia" would apply here for Lennon), where it's a solo-sounding take and the playing of the others isn't readily apparent (if there's any at all).

    But there's so much material over the course of the album, it's not particularly one thing or another.
     
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