Would you buy a pair of "giant killer" bookshelf speakers from Pioneer?

Oddly enough ive recently listened to those insignia speakers and while they are somewhat biggish, and have some decent looks, they actually sound better than many of the better brands more entry level speakers on display. I was kinda shocked at how mediocre the entry level Polks sounded to me especially compared to that Insignia speaker.

 

+1

While speaker sound is very subjective, as I've said here before I don't like those Polks at all (heck I thought the Sonys they sell sounded smoother!). Which leads me to this.......

I finally got to listen to the Pioneers, in this case the 3-woofer towers, the SP-FS51s. I agree with many others who have listened to them: refined highs, solid/non-boomy, though not ultra-extended, bass and their most unexpected positive feature, their midrange output. It's smooth & quite realistic and sounds much more "expensive" than the price tag would indicate.

In comparison, to my ears the Polks (IIRC the TSI300s) smacked right up next to the Pioneers had a massive "smiley EQ" thing going on i.e. very bright highs and punchy bass which seemed like it extended further than the Pioneers (not surprising considering the large enclosure its dual 5.25" woofers were operating in vs. the much smaller Pioneer equipped with three 5.25" woofers) and to top it all off, the Polks were much louder for the same volume setting.* But while some extra bass & treble are not the end of the world their midrange was unacceptable to me (sorry don't know the proper audiophile terms for this): it had an unpleasantly hollow and "papery" quality to it, almost as if someone was singing through a paper towel tube. While a lot of people think horns are awful, to me even the Klipschs standing nearby had much better mids than the Polks.

Stereo imaging? Well unfortunately I couldn't tell you because BB's listening area is awful, since they cram the speakers into a narrow aisle and they end up being more than @8ft apart and you're practically standing in between them. So yes, take much of this review with a grain of salt because of the lousy demo conditions, but so far I like them a lot.

Speaking of demos: I used my own CD-R with music I regularly listen to (sorry no "audiophile" recordings - why evaluate gear with something I never listen to?) which included tracks from people like Beck, Alan Parsons Project, DJ Shadow, Thievery Corporation and the Moody Blues. And I always make sure to check for these before I do any demos in a big-box store: receiver was set to its "Direct" mode (so its tone controls, surround and DSP systems were deactivated); front channels set to "large" and subwoofer option set to "No" to make sure no bass frequencies were being subtracted from the front channels.

Btw one aspect of the Pioneers that may help to convince music fans to buy them that are used to more "exciting" speakers is that when they are used to listen to albums that feature modern mastering (tinkly bright highs and overcompression), the Pioneer's laid-back personality will help to tame such recordings, so one can listen to them longer without listening fatigue setting in as quickly.


* demo-wise, this could be a problem for the Pioneers, since its a natural human reaction to think the louder speaker is of higher quality simply because it IS louder

 

Great writeup, Taurus! I've been wanting to check out these Pioneer speakers for a while now but I think I should speed it up a bit. Seems like a solid 2nd/bedroom system could come from these...or even a first system for that matter.

 

Finally was able to listen to the model that seems be discussed the most on most forums I read, the 2-way SP-BS21 equipped with a 4" woofer.

Same CD, same procedure with the receiver yada yada.

Not surprisingly, they sound almost identical to their big brother I reviewed above. And as others have found, these little guys generate more bass than you'd think for such a small woofer (the relatively large enclosure probably helps in that regard). And again - and I keep bringing up this brand because they are the only models I see near the same price point as the Pioneers - the similar-sized Polks, the T15s to be exact w/5.25" woofer, sitting near them could not compete to my ears. Though this time the quality difference to me was even more apparent since these particular Polks looked to be a step lower on the quality scale vs. the "TSI" series I mentioned in my previous post. FYI: the Polk T15s cost $15 more than these Pioneer bookshelfs.

Like their 3-woofered brothers (is woofered a real word? ), the SP-BS21 could not - relatively speaking - generate nearly as much volume as the Polks for the same volume setting, but considering the Pioneer's sound quality that's a totally fair trade off IMO. Btw Pioneer's product sheet lists the 21's sensitivity rating at 84dB. No wonder it generates the relatively deep bass it does.

I very much wanted to check out the $79 dual 5.25" woofer center channel, but ran out of time. They also had the matching Pioneer 8" subwoofer displayed, but demoing subs in such an acoustically-hostile environment is next to useless so I didn't even bother trying.

Personally if I were going to set up a 2.1 or a multichannel system, I would search around and grab the SP-BS41s which come with a 5.25" woofer. IMO it's easier to blend a sat with a subwoofer if the sat can reach lower, creating a more seamless transition. One little caveat: the 41s cost $199 per pair vs. the $89 for the 21s, so heck I would just buy the FS51 floorstanders I reviewed above which also cost $199 per pair! Otherwise I would stick with the 21s for sats or as subwoofer-less left & rights for an office, dorm or bedroom stereo system.

 

You can get the 41's for $149 + free shipping @ J&R.



buzz

 

GREAT review....thanks..im gonna go to my local best buy today and check them out! Ya the lower level Polks to me have gone down in sound quality a lot last several years. Im not sure whats up with that, as I own some vintage ones 1989 RTA-11T that still sound quite listenable as far as great imaging, smooth sound and clear yet not too forward mids. Its as if those old 6.5" drivers were somehow better than the new ones they are using despite all kinda so called technical breakthroughs.

I will never forget being at an audio store about 15 year or so ago and hearing some of the best acoustic guitar sound I have ever hear. I was stunned, and quickly walked into the "high priced speaker room" that had a thick glass door open allowing the sound to come into the main sales area. I quickly found the speaker that was so fantastic sounding to me and was kinda let down. It was a tiny Polk audio Monitor 5 jr+ belting out this totally real sounding guitar music. Wow, glad it was a brand I owned, but let down as I expected it to be some mega-dollar speaker ive yet to hear and could look forward to buying maybe!

 

any more reviews? is it worth getting these shipped from the states to canada..I need a small pair for a reasonable cost! any other suggestions?

 

Well that's a tougher question!

To digress a bit, Trader Joe's by me is selling a $110 bottle of wine by Robert Mondavi. Sounds crazy, eh? Not even worth considering! And yet...I thought about it, and realized they ought to know a heck of a lot about making wine.

In a similar vein, Pioneer knows a LOT about making speakers. So these could definitely be good, even though not from a "high end" speaker company.

But but but...paying for shipping to Canada. Hmm. They're not available directly up there? Y'all got some great brands like Energy and Paradigm and so on, maybe a domestic model could be a better value all-in (shipping included)

 

If something is truly a 'giant killer' then why not? Who cares who makes 'em?

 

For those that have never seen Pioneer's other offerings, their EX series, which start at around $2,500 a pair up to $9,000/pair, has received good reviews - here's Stereophile's.

And while it concerns a different segment of the audio hobby, Pioneer's B20 8" fullrange driver is very popular with the DIY community.

 

Theya re apparently 79.99 now (probably a Cyber Monday deal). I was thinking aout these for my old Fisher Futura 202, but then saw that these were 6ohm and I believe I need mine to be 8. Ugh.

 

It was a Black Friday deal held over until Cyber Monday.

From the owner's manual....

 

That's not enough of an impedance mismatch to be of concern. The 6-ohm Pioneers probably aren't any lower than a lot of speakers that are "rated" at 8-ohms. The impedance of a speaker is a curve anyway.

 

Looks like I missed the deal. I was away and now they are back at $199.

These are the specs of the Fisher 202 Futura. I wonder if these speakers would match up well?

Music Power at 1kHz speaker impedance at 8 ohms 100 watts +/- 1db

IHF Dynamic Power speaker impedance at 8 ohms 40/40 watts

RMS Power at 1kHz speaker impedance at 8 ohms 25/25 watts

 

As of this post, these Pioneers are still $80.00/pair.

But then, I'm on the West Coast.

 

Actually now they are showing up at $80 again. Weird. Maybe I clicked the wrong link last time

 

Giant Killer Pioneer "Bookshelf" Speakers:

 

FYI: the bookshelfs equipped with the 4" woofer are now on sale at BB for $59.99 per pair.

On a totally unrelated note.....I wish Pioneer would sell a basic stereo receiver in the $150-$200 range like Sony and Onkyo do. Plus it would be nice to be able to assemble a basic, all-Pioneer 2.0 music system (they still sell CD-only players and even cassette decks ).

 

You don't think the Alan Parsons Project is audiophile quality music?

 

I know one thing for sure, they make 'killer shiny piano black stereo racks'! But they ain't cheap, but well worth it.

 

APP is something I would listen to even if it was only available in 128k MP3 form because I like the music so much - it's a bonus that it also happens to sound so good. So I was really referring to that genre of music that some audiophile labels sell that sound incredible, but most people would never listen to for artistic pleasure because the *music* is so bland and unimaginative. As far as specific examples.......

DJ Shadow's album Endtroducing... is an example of not-so-great sonics, but great (to me) music. "Changeling - Transmission 1" is a good example from that album. FYI: the use of samples, like many such albums, is why it doesn't sound that great, since many samples in such albums come from worn cassette tapes and scratched vinyl, so to make sure the rest of the newly-recorded music doesn't stand out, the entire mix is basically "dumbed down" to help all the various elements match.

 

Ive found the best thing when im demo'ing speakers is to use something not just that you like, but a very neutral and natural solo female vocalist with minimal instrumentation. If the whole midrange is correct, it will just sound "right" with a good voice. Its very easy to eliminate problem speakers with this vocal test. Then after the entire midrange is either found to be good or bad, you can narrow down speakers that have perfect midrange, and then concentrate on the highs and the lows. Getting the midrange perfect is the hardest thing to do. Bass can vary a good bit and can still be acceptable, but the mids have to be spot on for a speaker to have that long term
listenable sound.


One I used to use years ago was Tori Amos with her voice and a piano. It was IMMEDIATELY apparent which speakers made her sound "different" or "colored" compared to the ones where her voice just seemed to hang in front of the speakers and draw no attention to anything. A very neutral midrange is quite hard to come by but when you hear it, its immediately apparent.

 

I am anxious to hear these, they come highly-touted. This might be a product worth buying on an impulse. I have done this, carefully, with much success.

 

So making a BASE assumption, what we're witnessing here is a battle for last place then?

 

The little BS21s (the model with the 4" woofer) must be selling decently, because I noticed while visiting Best Buy this week the price went up ten dollars!

I still wish these came in a finish other than black though - why do so many speaker companies think everyone hates cherry, beech, walnut, etc? And black is a hard sell as far as the fairer sex is concerned (I know, I used to sell home audio). But our friends over in Europe do get a choice, and not just the entry-level Pioneers either. Plus they are offered many more models than over here, including an entry-level 3-way model equipped with - drum roll - a TEN inch woofer! When was the last time you saw such a "huge" speaker over here?