Would you pay $11,000 or more for speakers if the cabinet was made in China??

Hi Larry, you make some very good points, and in this thread people have injected watches, General TSo's chicken and whatnot. I think because China has really been in the news in a bad way, having no strict standards about much of anything and I could go on and on, it is a reasonable thing for us Americans to say, ok, wait a moment, do I want to take "any" chance I could end up receiving a product that might look like 200% now, but end up falling apart years down the road, especially when that product costs $11,000 to $35,000.00. It has become a common thing to see companies use Chinese labor and materials to enhance their bottom line, and I'm sure many of these companies hope their quality will not be diminished by their move and all that extra money they will make for themselves, by implementing this change. Several people have said on this thread, more money is the one and only reason for making this cabinet manufacturing change to begin with. There is certainly no one bragging about all the many technical and physical enhancements being realized by making these speaker cabinets in China, and it appears they may be installing the drivers and crossovers there as well, no one is saying other than the dealer that worked with Mr. Kelly, and that information did not come to him easily. If a customer is being told that the veneer on his loudspeaker is not covered when it falls off, oh my, that is a serious situation indeed. When I read that in Mr. Shumer's post I just visualized what a mess that would be, veneer breaking loose from an $11,000.00 speaker and that cabinet was made on the other side of the world, what in the heck would someone do, other than feel sick! I suppose pull out the old carpenter glue and hope you could squeeze some in the cracks! I do not disagree that some Chinese-made products are perfectly fine, but wow, it's a big gamble to take with that level of an investment, and again, I have heard no one say this move was made to furnish a higher quality cabinet, have not heard that from anyone, and I think I would like to know from any speaker manufacturer if delamination of any kind happens, short of dropping the speaker in the bathtub, it is totally and completely covered in the warranty and just exactly how that level of repair would be handled. As none of the assembly was done in the United States, these speakers could end up being shipped back to China, oh my gosh, I would hate to face that possibility.

 

If the product meets design and QC specifications, the language they speak in the factory is immaterial.

 

Darn, why didn't I think of that?

 

Isn't the point here that a company represented something as being "made in the USA" when it wasn't (if indeed that is the case)? It doesn't matter that it's China or any other country, what matters is it's potentially a fraudulent misrepresentation.

 

I don't do hypotheticals. If you feel so strongly about being misled then bring a lawsuit and see where it takes you. Otherwise this is so much whining. This is last post on this very tiresome post.

 

Anybody on this thread that thinks any boutique audio manufacturer is getting rich in this business needs to do some more research. The location for production is driven by business concerns up to survival of the company - including of course the jobs of the employees.

 

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Was anyone upset when they were represented as "made in the USA" but had cabinets from Denmark?

 

Good point!

 

That is absolutely a very good point, and the answer in regard to China is " Their reputation precedes them." For most part, used as a gesture of complement and respect, however in this case, used to denote a bad reputation. That is absolutely the answer, Denmark deserves no such criticism! I own one of those products made in Denmark!

 

With regards to cabinet quality - a few years ago on audioasylum a fellow bought a pair of PSB loudspeakers. The speaker cabinet started to come apart and PSB basically stone walled him. They could not fix it or even replace it because the changed models and most companies even the big western companies do not hold stock of previous models or their parts. After a bunch of tirade posts on forums PSB eventually caved in and replaced the speaker with a new model. The problem with this is the new model isn't necessarily a better model. I have prefered older series of speakers from several companies so it would be frustrating if I had say a Matrix series B&W and was forced to take a nautilus series B&W because the company can't replace a given part.

So don't assume that buying American will be better should in ten years your speaker need parts (especially cabinets) over buying from a Chinese company.

Lastly, at least when the CEOs of Chinese companies are caught poisoning people from the goods they're selling, the Chinese government takes the CEO out back and shoots them. In the US - what exactly happens to the CEO when they are caught poisoning people? They get $20,000,000 parachutes and .... (comment edited by a moderator)

 

I'd be careful what I'm buying. And "knock off" gear isn't confined to China IIRC.

 

China = Yes, but I draw the line at North Korea mate !

 

And this smacks of the kind of uninformed comment I've seen from time to time in here.

A company not being clear about country of manufacture is one thing, blithely slating that country's manufacturing per se quite quite another.

 

Brother_Rael, I'm not uninformed, oh my, looks like I'm going to have to help you understand, but that is what I am here for, here is just one of dozens and dozens and dozens of articles on poor products coming out of China, hope this helps you understand a bit better. There are so many articles concerning the lack of quality, and it goes far beyond quality, people die, but I suppose you have just not seen any, so I just randomly picked one for you to digest.

Oh, just in case you don't have time to read the full article, here is the last paragraph, speaking about the government executing people for crimes and that does not even work! I hope this one article helps you to rethink who is uninformed.

What can we say about a country in which even the most extreme forms of punishment do not seem to have an impact on criminal activity? And what does our eagerness to import products from such an economy say about ourselves?

Why 'Made in China' is a mark of shame

 

Chinese made products can be very good. Whether they are or not is more dependent on the company farming out the job, and how much profiteering they want to do.

 

I would have no problem with buying an expensive speaker made in China as long as it meets my system needs and sound quality priorities and the manufacturer/dealer I am buying it from has a history of high quality and standing behind their products. Clearly, some Chinese factories have produced poor quality and dangerous products, but I wouldn't avoid all Chinese products for that reason.

 

I would not avoid ALL products either, however I would most likely avoid $11,000.00 to $35,000.00 loudspeaker purchases knowing there are many non-risky alternatives, and remember, this entire thread is about disclosure or non disclosure. I'm not real sure what you mean about not having any problems if the product meets your systems needs? What if it meets your systems needs today and the veneer falls off 4 years down the road because the glue was substandard?

 

I don't need you to "educate" me. Nor do I need your condescending tone.

If you want to widen the issue to human rights cases then by all means. Onside there. But you're the OP. Your post was about manufacturing claims by a company. Now your remit is widening. Good for you. Play the human rights card. No problem for me. But your hifi build gripes? If the QA is robust, the product will be too.

 

W

Wait a moment here my Scottish friend, condescending tone?? Let me politely remind you of what you said to me, to begin with, would you consider what you said to me condescending or just correctional, which one would it be, here is what you said:

(And this smacks of the kind of uninformed comment I've seen from time to time in here.) So my friend, that was your tone to me, what kind of tone were you using, was that condescending or correctional or just a bit high brow?

There is no need to widen the issue to human rights, I just picked one of dozens of articles, many are not involving human rights, but product quality. I suppose I should have found one that was more product oriented in lieu of poison oriented, tell you what, I will find you another one! Here is a quick excerpt from another article about furniture. The thing is, the furniture may not be toxic today, and it will be in two weeks, in China, you just will never know. So, I hope this helps make my point.

Article Excerpt:
Furniture is a latecomer to imports. So maybe these issues can get resolved soon. But if not, buyers need to take caution. Failure to do so could result in all kinds of illnesses that could be misdiagnosed as chronic fatigue, etc.

In a global world, where businesses just want to make a buck and bend the rules, where better place to do so than in furniture right? Just when people are getting a handle on second hand smoke, with high concentrations of formaldehyde, this new challenge faces many Americans.

And globalization has killed towns in the US, as furniture makers are cast aside in favor of the new and improved profit plan that globalization affords. But to my way of thinking, this is a major step backwards in the protection of the consumer to toxic elements.

If you can afford to do so, buy American products. You will likely be safer when it comes to furniture. Maybe your kid won't need a tube in her ear as an infant. I am not giving medical advice, but wouldn't it be nice to know that you are providing a safe environment for your child when you are being fooled once again by the marketplace thanks to globalization?

I should mention at this point, I believe the speaker manufacturer has now removed the Made In USA print on the speaker connection plate, according to some of the other posts here, which just might be enough. I don't think much will be said about where those cabinets are being made on that speaker connection plate, why is that? It's not hard to simply now print, designed in USA, manufactured and assembled in China, what do you think? This way, people like me can back away and people like you can order a set, disclosure is just a good thing.

 

I wouldn't pay 11,000 for speakers even if the cabinets are made by Stradivari.

 

Pretty sure they eBay auction closed before it even got to the minimum.

 

Pretty sure this thread crossed the line into politics a while ago... waiting for the inevitable train wreck.

 

Well, it's funny you should mention that. The sound of a Stradivarius Violin is just virtually impossible to copy, same with the less famous Guarneri, and for years everyone wanted to know why they sounded so good. At great expense, testing was done and they actually now believe it was the chemicals applied to the wood that is responsible for their tone, borax, fluorides, chromium and iron salts to name a few. It was thought these chemicals would protect the instrument, but it turns out, they gave the instrument it's unique sound. It is said there were about 1200 Stradivarius Violins made (limited edition run), and to this day only about 600 remain, and the price tag, about 5 million dollars each! With all those chemicals used, heck, these things might have been made in China Ho Ho Ho!

 

I was SO going to read this. And then...

 

$2000 speakers made in Bear Lake!