Wow, now Monoprice has an all-tube (EL84) amp with phono for $329.99

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by action pact, Nov 5, 2017.

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  1. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here!

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Agreed!
     
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  2. Paully

    Paully De gustibus non est disputandum

    Location:
    Tennessee
    I'm glad you know each other so well that you can properly interpret his post where nothing you guys later say was evident. A literal reading of his first post, and especially the title, might lead the uninitiated a different direction so it was worth pointing out that the amp is probably junk without further evidence to the contrary.

    By the way, for the money I would take a used, vintage receiver instead.
     
  3. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore Thread Starter

    Right, I had to pay a whole $400 for my recapped Fisher X-100!

    See my previous comment. :)

    Still, I think this cheap Monoprice might be kinda fun for those interested in getting a taste of what tubes sound like.
     
    dpg3, Will1960, stuwee and 3 others like this.
  4. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    Exactly.I wonder if this thing isn't the tube amp equivalent of a Crosley "turntable".
    My X-101 was $10 at the flea market,but I had to pay another $500 to get it restored.
     
    brock and head_unit like this.
  5. telemike

    telemike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    Wow, such trash talk without even auditioning it....

    I'd at least listen to it before saying it's junk. My old JVC turntable doesn't have a ground wire so that doesn't bother me.
     
    Stone Turntable and SandAndGlass like this.
  6. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore Thread Starter

    Based on the hybrid SS/tube Monoprice amp I own, my guess is it's not fantastic but probably pretty good for less demanding environments.
     
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  7. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    This thing may give them the wrong impression of what tubes sound like. Reminds me of an old Jewish joke about the Beatles:

    "I don't know why they make such a big deal about the Beatles nowadays - the lisp, they burr, they can hardly even carry a tune! - Where did you hear them? - Well, my neighbor, Rabinowitz, sang it for me at the BBQ the other day..."
     
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  8. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Dismissiveness and derision toward perceived "lesser" equipment is one of the worst aspects of hobbyists. Instead of a hobby about listening to music, it becomes an equipment-based *****-size contest around here way too much of the time. For many in the real world, $400 is a LOT of money to spend on a non-necessity. Snobbishness and equipment-expense-focus are a cancer on this hobby.
     
  9. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore Thread Starter

    That's a good joke, but anyone who buys something like this expecting a full serving of tube-y goodness is misdirected.

    EXAMPLE: I recently bought an inexpensive headphone amp because I wanted to see if it was an upgrade from not using a dedicated headphone amp. Short answer: it wasn't an upgrade. Did I conclude that headphone amps are a waste of money? No, it taught me that I needed to aim higher next time.
     
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  10. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I agree with you. But we are not talking about just of any piece of equipment costing $400 possibly being sub-par. We are talking about a tube integrated amplifier, for God's sake.

    I have gear that cost less than that, and it works and sounds perfectly fine. You can get very decent SS gear for that kind of money, and it will be nothing to sneeze at. Hell, my Little Dot MkII headphone amp - OTL tube unit, cost around $150 or less, and sounds so good I see no reason to replace it with others. My Onkyo C-7030 CD player cost $170, Yamaha R-S201 receiver - $140. My Harman/Kardon tuner - I paid $75 for it, used. And I'm not ashamed to say how little I paid for them, neither will I care if someone tries to knock them. I have heard VERY expensive gear at an audio show that did not sound anywhere close to my modest setup. It's not about how little the thing cost, or being snobbish and dismissive about inexpensive components. It's about putting things in perspective.

    Tube gear is expensive for a reason - it is comprised of expensive components, and has to, to sound good. A tube amp that retails in the US for $329 probably consists of parts costing a cumulative $80 in China. Can it sound good? - I doubt it. Can it give a "taste" of what tubes sound like? - not more than Spam can give you an idea of what steak tastes like.

    If one has $329 to spend on an amp - there are better ways of spending it to get good sound. Very decent used SS amps can be had for that price, sometimes even new gear, B-stock, open box, and whatnot can be had on specials, at ridiculous prices. Someone on a tight budget will, and should try to get the best bang for the buck, for every penny of it. And that would be the way to go.

    On the other hand, I can almost bet on it, that someone considering a "$300 tube amp" is NOT a desperate music lover hampered by poverty, but is doing it out of curiosity mostly, and is not clutching the last $300 in his fist. To that person I say - don't waste your time and money, miracles do not exist.

    So, I dismiss accusations of snobbery, if they were directed at me. I own plenty of inexpensive gear, and often sing its praises, where praise is due.
     
  11. telemike

    telemike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    I agree, "All Audio, No Attitude" would be nice around here. Some of us love music and don't have the budget for "Audiophile grade" equipment. We scrounge CL and other bargains to enjoy MUSIC and not listen to equipment for equipment's sake.
     
  12. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Precisely. A music lover on a budget will search for good deals on proven gear. Curiosity he can't afford, for it is prone to disappointment.
     
    Madness likes this.
  13. Madness

    Madness "Hate is much too great a burden to bear."

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    As a budget-minded audiophile without any tube-based equipment, I'd like to get an idea of what I might try to get a taste of what tubes would bring to the table. I have no idea where to start...tube-based headphone amp? Tube-based integrated amp? Tube-based receiver? Looking at something entry level because I have no experience whatsoever with tubes. Just for argument's sake, <$1,000 US.

    Thanks.
     
  14. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Of course it is the tube equivalent of a Crosley TT. But, people do buy Crosley TT's and they do listen to records on them. When I first saw them in a big box store, some years back, my first thoughts were not how bad this thing might sound or how poorly it might be made. I just imagined taking an ice pick and sticking in in the record grooves as the record rotates.

    Anyone who has been around real stereo equipment, knows that Crosley's are not the real deal. Even Crosley has made statements that their initial ideas of producing these unique TT's, were intended to be sold as novelty items.

    If I wasn't concerned about record damage, I would play a record on a Crosley, say if I wanted to sample an album and to see if I like the music or the artist. I listen to music in my car, and the radio/CD player is a stock factory unit, as are the speakers. It sounds fine for listening to music in the car. In my younger days, I had all replacement radio's and cassette players, with trunk mounted power amps and non-factory speakers.

    The thing is, that playing music through this amplifier, won't harm anything. There are lots of Chinese made tube amps in the $200 - $600 price range. Some probably sound OK for what they are.

    When I first set up rear speakers, I bought an inexpensive Sherwood stereo receiver that was 100-WPC from Amazon for $99 and look at all the features that it had for that price.

    This tube amplifier is a whole lot less power and yet it still costs over three times what the Sherwood sold for.

    If you had a little SS integrated amp with the same power and features that this tube amp has, it could retail for $50.

    As another member posted, a amp of this price is not inexpensive to a lot of people.

    Many people are in the big box stores buying AV receiver's for $200 - $300, every day.
     
    EasterEverywhere likes this.
  15. telemike

    telemike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    I'd give the monoprice a try for a small office system. I have the monoprice tube guitar amp (15W) that is based on a Laney CUB that sells for twice the price. The Monoprice tube guitar amps have a large following for budget players. Sure, they get slagged by cork sniffers. Monoprice sells direct, buys in bulk, and gets a good price on a manufacturing lot. That same amp sold thru a store would be about $200 more.
     
    H8SLKC likes this.
  16. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I don't see anyone dismissing the unit but offering the idea that this probably isn't the best or safest thing to buy. The suggested alternatives were not outlandishly expensive for a "generally speaking higher end" audio forum.

    Further audio forums are typically about sound quality not music listening. Steve Hoffman has a "Music Forum" if you wish to talk about music - I generally get bored discussing someones top 7 favorite Beatles tracks, Beatles Albums, who would have made the best 5th Beatles, which drug made the Beatles sound better, best Beatles girlfriends, which Beatles Artwork was the best, which was the best mastering, who was the best Beatle?, Stones VS Beatles, top 5 favorite Beatles songs on Halloween, Christmas, New Years, just because, on Sundays, and if you were gay which of the Beatles would you sleep with.

    Enter same conversations for Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Led Zeppelin, The Grateful Dead, CCR, The Eagles and reading the endless old geezers complaining that nothing in music since 1975 has been any good. I'm picturing a washed up Doctor Johnny Fever railing against disco.

    The cost to the bottom approach doesn't always work. Knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing can lead to a person spending more money in the long run and getting worse results. What if - (a hypothetical) you spend $400 for a thing that lasts three years and fails spectacularly - and sounds mediocre for those three years - they you go out and buy another similar thing for another $400 - and in three years of mediocre sound it fails spectacularly. Perhaps you are better buying the thing for $800-$1000 that lasts 20 years and sounds a lot better to start with.

    The audio forums are not about music - they are about sound quality delivery systems of that music. These are not "need" items but want items. My Samsung S7 takes some very impressive photographs - but they are not impressive to photographers who would probably view my S7's camera as a very good "toy" compared to a top of the line Nikon DSLR.

    I know people buy things based on looks and this unit is kind of cool - but once the looks wear off you really are then listening to how it sounds. Kind of like Dating. Looks get you in the door - then it's a matter of substance. Ont he positive side - if you're expectations are really low you can more readily be impressed.
     
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  17. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    You might want to read @Richard Austen's review on the KingKo EL84 based tube amplifier

    There are also real nice PrimaLuna amps that have been discontinued and replaced with a newer and more expensive model.

    I have one of their KT-88 based Prologue Five power amps, that I think sound excellent on my system. It is rated at 36-WPC.

    You can buy it for $1,099 from Upscale Audio.

    Member @Benzion recently purchased a Prologue Four, which are being sold, also on clearance for $899. The Four is an EL34 based power amp and is rated at 35-WPC.

    Any of these would be good to consider.

    I don't use tube amps on my modern tower speakers. I use them on my vintage Altec A7's, which have an efficiency rating of 103-dB, so I can use modest amplification, if I so choose. My smallest tube amplifier is only 3.9-WPC.

    For people who have less efficient speakers, say in the range of 87dB to 90dB, might be better served with the more powerful PrimaLuna's and take advantage of these close-out prices.
     
  18. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Now, THAT is way too funny!

    More posts are made in the Music forum than any other forum on this web site.

    I don't personally discuss music, it just isn't something that ever interested me. I just listen to music and determine whether I like what I am hearing or not.
     
    nm_west likes this.
  19. rfs

    rfs Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lansing, MI USA
    I bought a Magnavox 9300 series console amplifier that had been refurbed and set up as a power amp on eBay for $200. It sounds great to me - 4 6BQ5's (aka EL84), 2 6EU7's and a 5U4. There is a long thread on AudioKarma with circuit upgrades for it by Dave Gillespie. I haven't felt the need to modify it, as I am using it as a computer amp and don't need tremendous volume. The stock circuit starts to distort around 8 watts or so. I'm using Infinity RS225 bookshelf speakers with it.
     
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  20. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    Yes and no.90% of the time,our CL or flea market deals will need repair or restoration,and you will need to be willing to spend the bux to get it repaired or restored.We are talking about stuff that may have sat neglected in a closet or garage,for anywhere from 30-60 years.Lucky for us the sellers thought enough to sell it on CL,or a yard sale,rather than having the equipment end up at the landfill or e-waste site.

    However,a lot of us who really love music know how good this stuff can sound,once you do save up the money to have it professionally restored.If you want to call that snobbery,go right ahead.It's hardly in the same league as spending six figures a throw on an amp,a Turntable,etc.

    These Are The 10 Most Expensive Turntables in The World

    I do think $300+ is beyond the price range of most entry level buyers,who this is clearly aimed at.
     
  21. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Well of course if there is a good deal to be made these things become a major factor. The KingKo is only 12 watts but a 24 watt amp will only provide 3dB more level and then only at the maximum level. Then you sort of have to weigh which sound you like. I kind of already liked the Line Magnetic 211IA and 216IA over the Prima Luna's and I prefer the Kingko to the LM's or Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum. I don't believe the King is better built than those - it may simply be the nature of the EL84 that I like better. And of course someone else may prefer the EL34 or KT88.

    And then you sort of have to look at features, size, resale. Chinese amps aren't the best in this regard but you would probably be able to sell a Prima Luna easier than the Kingko since I am the only reviewer on the planet that has reviewed or auditioned the KingKo. While PL has a pretty big list of reviews. So there is more risk buying a Kingko.

    Beyond that it comes down to tube costs. EL84 is generally longer lasting and cheaper than EL34 and KT88 to buy. They cost more and last half as long or 1/4 as long.

    Also note the PL Prologue 5 is a power amp so you still need to buy a preamp on top of the $1099.

    In either case - I think $329 is too high for amp more designed for looks - the OP can spend $194 and get this which at least has a track record and a bunch of customer reviews. And gee doesn't it look familiar - Nobosound - it actually has more features and costs less too.

    [​IMG]


    https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-MS-...pID=514OvsYK6GL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
     
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  22. bluemooze

    bluemooze Senior Member

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    You mentioned everything except the only thing that matters - can you tell us how it sounds? :)
     
  23. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore Thread Starter

    This is not the same as the $329 Monoprice amp, which has EL84's. It's closer to their $150 hybrid tube/SS amp.
     
    Rolltide likes this.
  24. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    A likely characterization: "transparent". Compared to a tube amp, it would sound like nothing. No tube rolling to try to get a better sound; if you are unsatisfied with 0.08% distortion instead of 1%, or response from 10-100000Hz -3dB, you'd have to turn the tone knobs. Your tube phono-pre can take care of adding your "sound" though.

    The Onkyo product page has pictures of transformer and capacitors, giving the impression that Onkyo's insides are also on their minds. I'm a fan of Denon and Yamaha black boxes also, but Denon has discontinued stereo-only models like DRA-397 at similar price point (but their mini-system also works where this tube amp would), and Yamaha's top-of-the-line is well into the $1000+ range now.

    Anyway, it's already been well articulated that there's no real niche these cheapo Chinese tube amps fill, except to visually impress undiscerning friends.
     
  25. Giacomo Belbo

    Giacomo Belbo Journalist for Rolling Stone 1976-1979

    How do you know it "outclasses" it? Have you done a side by side? Or just because the Onkyo made in China with the right to put the Onkyo name on it you feel it would be better? By design I would argue that a EL84 amplifier will sound a lot better than a transistor one.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
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