Wrong aspect ratios for TV shows in home media - how much does it bother you?

And just to add another problem with aspect ratios, just because it's mastered correctly doesn't mean it's going to be broadcast correctly to the home viewer. I'm frequently appalled at how badly butchered some shows are, even to the point of being shrunken, letterboxed, pillsrboxed, fattenized, and worse... all at the same time.

 

Count me among those who prefer aspect ratios consistent with directorial intent and original release to getting rid of black bars even if that means more picture rather than less.

To me it is like I wouldn't want (except as a clearly labelled alternate version) a 5.1 version of a stereo release created by filling the other 3 tracks with instruments and vocal parts that had been recorded at the original sessions but silenced in the original mix.

Sometimes more content is not better as editing/framing is part of the creative process, and not a trivial part.

 

Messing with aspect ratios usually bugs the crap out of me (particularly if they're broadcast in the wrong AR). However, I think the reframed version of 'The Wire' doesn't suffer too badly at all. I've watched both side by side and there's not a hell of a lot of peripheral action going on that was removed with the change. Certainly not enough to moan about and the new version looks gorgeous!

 

yes, especially when the wrong one is the only one available on home video...Kung Fu season 1 comes to mind...fake WS.

 

Absolutely! This should never be messed with, imo.

 

I was excited to see The Blue Max available to watch on Fox Movie On Demand the other day as the blu-ray is out of print and going for about $90. It's an HD channel, but this is how FXM is presenting it. What is this - a standard def widescreen image pillarboxed onto a 4:3 window, and so when displayed on a widescreen TV, it uses maybe a 1/3 of the 60" screen? Why bother broadcasting at all if this is how you're gonna do it.

 

Are you watching via cable or via satellite? Is it possible the cable company is screwing this up? Are the FXM bumpers and interstitial material full-frame?

I got to a point about 7-8 years ago I just won't watch standard def anymore, period. Not gonna do it. I don't have a problem with a historical show that uses some old SD footage if that's all there is.

 

It's cable. That was from the On Demand section for Fox Movie Channel via Spectrum (former Time Warner) cable. Other movies they have available appear correctly and fill up the screen (or have small black bars top & bottom if wider than 16x9), so I think its how FXM is doing it.

 

I dunno. I've seen FXM before and it was fine. Maybe they had a bad day. I've seen all kinds of weird problems before, including shows that get squeezed or center-cut when they should be widescreen. A friend of mine once calculated that there's at least 8 different ways they can screw up aspect ratios.

 

It's not a live broadcast, so not just a bad day. This is from the "on demand" section. I first tried to watch this on demand about 3 weeks ago and quit a few minutes into it when I saw how small the picture was. The picture I just posted I took yesterday when I went and selected the movie again. That's just how they have it and its still that way.

I'll write Fox to see if they say anything. If I can find a Contact Us link on their web site. Seems like fewer places have these now and just expect everything to be through twitter or facebook, which I stay away from.

 

Worst one I've seen is the Kung Fu tv show stretched to widescreen on dvd.

 

You're kidding! Are you certain your TV set isn't doing the stretching? It's unusual for a standard-def DVD to not be 4x3, unless it's specifically encoded for anamorphic content.

 

Married With Children looks pretty bad the way it was being shown on TBS (I think) On Demand. It's cropped/zoomed and maybe actually stretched a little out to 16x9.

 

Just checked the old DVDTalk review. Kung Fu - The First Complete Season :

"Testing the waters, Warner Home Video has released Kung Fu: The Complete First Season in 16:9 anamorphic format, with an aspect ratio of about 1.77:1. While the pilot conceivably may have been shot for cropping with an eye on a theatrical release overseas, the series was definitely standard 4:3. On one hand, the series plays reasonably well cropped, with most compositions surviving the transition to widescreen unscathed. Faces aren't cropped at the eyebrows, etc., and one wonders if Warners spent time reconfiguring the image to get it to fit as well as it does (and whether the original producers / DPs / directors were consulted)."

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K62YHDI/

Available for 20-odd dollars.

 

What's even worse is when they are running a program in wide screen, and then show an old clip or photograph or something which is 4:3, and stretch it to fill the screen.

 

Cropped or fattenized? There's a huge difference.

If they scan the full-ap 35mm negative, I think you can get away with a 1.78 presentation to a point. Again, Seinfeld:

 

A few days ago, Die Hard 3 was on TV, reformatted in fullscreen. Hated it.

 

Actually, in 16x9 you would see less of the top of the frame, not more. You may be mistaking practical set lights for studio lights.

All the Die Hard movies were shot in 2.39 anamorphic Panavision, so a full-frame 1.78 version would be panned/scanned. And it's very tough to do. I did a pan/scan for a few days of the original Die Hard with DP Jan DeBont, and he was no fun to work with. I told him, "with luck, the only version of the movie anybody will want to see is the original 2.39 letterbox framing," but it didn't placate him much.

Disney is one of many studios that demands both a 1.78 full-frame version and a 2.39 scope letterbox version of all their features. What makes it complicated nowadays is with Super 35mm formats, you may be seeing more area in the 1.78 version than the 2.39... but it's not necessarily image area anybody was ever meant to see. Here's an example:



This is a very, very complicated area these days, especially when different resolution cameras are used throughout production.

 

That's what I thought too, but the lights were without a doubt studio lights (it was a row of black studio lights above the top of the bar). I'm guessing that when they reframed it, they shifted the image 'up'? The lights were similar in style to:

 

That's a weird brand of lights, so I'd be surprised they used them. I used to see a lot of Mole-Richardson lights on the Paramount stages, generally 2K's mounted over the stage. Nowadays, I think there's a trend for more soft lights.

It's the responsibility of the mastering engineer to fix framing mistakes like this, then a QC person is supposed to be the safety net who sees it and rejects it, and then there's an executive at the studio that has final approval before it goes out. So "in theory," you'd think at least three people would watch this stuff and spot the mistakes before they get shipped. At the worst, I would either zoom in the picture enough to avoid seeing the top of frame, or (in desperation) put a black mask up there. But generally, a 16x9 transfer does tilt up slightly, unless there's a story point in the bottom part of the frame.

I did a ton of reframing on That '70s Show due to lights, cables, stagehands, and set edges in many shots, and that was a 3-perf show intended for both 16x9 and 4x3. But the crew kind of didn't care about 16x9 in those days, so they let a lot of things go. You basically have to pay close attention to make sure this stuff doesn't get screwed up.

 

To clarify, that wasn't the actual brand of lights (they were too small onscreen for me to tell, even if I could identify manufacturers), this was just the general, overall style - black, with the four metal hinged pieces on the front.

 

When I am watching a broadcast I don’t like it but I deal with it. However, if I spend money on a show on dvd or bluray I want it in the original ratio as filmed and as originally intended to be seen. Ditto syndication prints vs. original broadcast prints. If I spend a lot of money on something I want it as complete as possible. I know in some cases, like WKRP, music rights can prevent that. In other cases just syndicated prints are available. Fine ... but make sure that is known before purchase and I would hope the items are marked at a price that is fair to the buyer. (In the case of WKRP paying higher is fine to pay for the 97% clearances they could get.)

 

I am against this in theory, but Seinfeld I can not imagine not being widescreen now.
I think that show was done quite good, although at first it did bother me a bit.

 

I have Die Hard 3 recorded from analogue cable in the 90s and im grateful its full screen (I prefer full screen)