Yamaha R-S300 and Klipsch RP400m, why does it sound so quiet?

Hello everyone, this is my first post so please tell me if I'm doing anything wrong,
I have a Yamaha R-S300 in which I have plugged a set of two klipsch RP400m. The issue I have is that they sound very quiet. When I listen to a cassette, I have to set the sound to between -20 db and -10 db to be able to enjoy the sound, and still it's not that loud.
It's even worse with my turntable plugged in the phono input, with quiet LPs I have to go as far as -5db!

I'm baffled, this receiver is supposed to be 2x50 watts at 8 ohms, more than enough to power the RP400m, which, besides, have a high sensibility.

Is there anything wrong with my setup or am I just mistaken ? Are the speakers hard to power or is the Yamaha too weak ? I've ordered this to improve the sound of my turntable but I'm not sure it's the right thing to do...

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this and have a nice day.

 

Those numbers sound about right. I used that receiver for awhile and was typically between -20 and -5 depending on the source. The gain structure for all amps is different and some require the volume knob to be turned up more and some less.

The phono preamps in the Yamaha receivers have really low gain. This is what's making you have to turn it up for the phono input. Probably better off with an external preamp which will offer more gain and sound better.

Hope this helps but it sounds like your amp is fine.

 

First of all thank your for your answer.
If you have to listen to this amp at -5 db for instance, it means that the amp has just 5db to go to its maximum? I find it hard to understand why this powerful amp has to be almost at full power to work with those small bookshelf speakers...
The speakers are brand new, so I can still bring them back to the shop. That's why I was afraid that the speakers would be too small to produce loud enough sound... Do you have any experience with those speakers?

 

Firstly, don’t trust Klipsch’s sensitivity rating. I bought the RP600M for a little Class A 10wpc amp. Big disappointment. Stereo phone measured it at around 89dB only.

Secondky, maybe your source output is slightly on the low side?

On my Yamaha RN-803, listening to say a streamer or CD, it’s around -14.5 for an 88dB speaker in a room of 12’ x 10’.

 

I bought them especially for the sensitivity... do you think they don't match the receiver then?

I don't know, my AT-VM95ML is a pretty standard cartridge I think. I know that vinyl records are supposed to be quieter than, say, compressed MP3s, but the whole setup is too quiet.
At the end of the day, what I really want to know I whether my Yamaha is damaged in any way and whether the klipsch are a good fit / good speakers. And more importantly, whether running the receiver at -5db will damage it or the speakers, and if it creates distorsion.
I can't thank you all enough for you help, I have to say that I'm slightly lost with all this!

 

The volume actually goes up to something like +16 or 18. That would be maximum volume. How big is the room you are trying to fill ? The room size will determine the type of speaker you need.

 

Try taking the volume higher. There’s not need to worry as long as it’s not sounding like it’s distorting.

 

The combination of a low gain phono section on the Yamaha and a medium gain cartridge like the VM95 (3.5mv) is going to sound quiet. In addition, the Yamaha's phono section may have much higher than recommended capacitance for the VM95 (100-200pf). If you want to turbo charge your phono output, look at something like the Schiit Mani phono preamp. It has multiple gain settings including 42 and 48db for the AT cart. It will do wonders on output. It's also affordable at around $130. For cheaper, the ART DJ Pre also has adjustable gain for around $70. Welcome to the forum!

 

I haven't any experience with these components, but after having a quick skim of the Yamaha manual there's some things you could check.

How have you wired the amp to the speakers? There are A&B speaker connectors available for bi-wiring purposes and an impedance selector. How have you configured this?

In the troubleshooting section it mentions that low volume may be a product of the loudness function being used. Is that set to the flat position? It may be easier to put it in Pure Direct mode to eliminate any processing the receiver might be doing to the signal.

As @Arclight73 says, the actual max volume for this unit is +16.5dB, so you do have some way to go. How far do you have to turn it up to be fully satisfied? Have you tried a CD player and seen how that compares to your cassette & record players?

Good luck!

 

The room is a small living room of 17 m² I think.

I read somewhere that if the amp was set too high, it would send "square waves" or something like that to the speakers, which would in turn be damaged... That's why I was afraid of taking the volume higher.

Sadly, I cannot find the Schiit Mani phono preamp in France for a reasonable price. Would those two preamps be a good fit? The Micromega seems nice and is on a discount, but I cant set the gain manually...

• Micromega MyGroov Noir - Préamplis phono sur Son-Vidéo.com
• Rega Mini Fono A2D - Préamplis phono sur Son-Vidéo.com

I tried all those options, thank you. It does not seem to change anything, so there might not be anything wrong with amp in itself.

Sometimes I have to go as far as -5db, but not louder, otherwise I find the sound unpleasant. I don't have a CD player, I have the line output of my computer for what it is worth: it's definetely louder, but not by a large margin.

 

If it’s not distorting ... If you not trying to have the neighbor get an injunction against you ... If you not trying to make the amp go into overdrive like a guitar amp ... It’s not gonna kill the tweeters.

 

From my experience, from back in the day that I used receivers, the lower the wattage the more spread out over the volume knob. I had 30 watt receivers that I listened to usually at 1 or 2 o'clock as a normal setting.

 

Look for something with at least 40db of gain and capacitance of 100pf.

 

I think the solution is an external preamp.
So I've found the Micromega Mygroove on sale, 100€ instead of 200€ (and it's made in France)
Here are the specs:

- No electrolytic capacitor the audio section, or in the diet or in the signal path
- load impedance of the cell: MM - 47 kOhms / MC - 100 Ω
- Gain: MM - 40 dB / MC - 60 dB
- Distortion THD: very low (1 kHz) ≤ 0.001% MM, ≤ 0.005% MC
- RIAA deviation: <± 1 dB (20 Hz - 20 kHz)
- Frequency response: 20 Hz - 20 kHz
- Signal / Noise Ratio:> MM - 88 dB ( weighted) / MC - 76dB (A-weighted)

What do you all think of this? I can't find the capacitance...

 

I've also found this one :

Pro-Ject Phono Box S2 Noir - Préamplis phono sur Son-Vidéo.com
The "project phono box S2". Now I'm hesitating between the three preamps.