Yes and Gentle Giant: Compare/Contrast

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JimW, Oct 13, 2017.

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  1. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming Thread Starter

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    Long time Yeshead here, never clicked w/ GG back in the day. But being a multi-channel fanatic and a big fan of Master Wilson, I got Power and Glory and was blown away. That led to Octopuss and now Three Suites. I really like the music- and the visuals really help (I love having the lyrics, esp. the cool way they were done on P&G).

    So, I'm just beginning my GG journey. I'd love to hear from fans of both bands. I know like Yes, GG's music will only grow w/ repeated exposure. But listening time has much more competition these days and nothing can replace the deep connection that can grow over decades. Who got into both back when?

    My intial feelings: GG pushes the limits even more than Yes, both musically (esp. rhythmically) and in disdain for commercial concerns. GG is much darker; I believe the result of much more use of minor keys??? GG is more free flowing; Yes is more structured.

    Hope to hear some other more informed perspectives...
     
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  2. Gentle Giant were more willing to take risks than Yes -who were no slouches either and took a big risk with Tales.
     
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  3. It was the opposite with me! I started getting into Gentle Giant seriously in the earlier part of the 70s, while simultaneously being exposed for the first time to Yes, especially through a pal who was much more into them than I was. And I was kind of lukewarm then about Yes, as a whole. I developed a bigger and better appreciation of their art with the passing years. But it's funny you say that Yes is more structured than GG, as I feel it's the opposite. And though my favorite band is still GG, I don't fault the "structure-less" Yes over this. Yes (classic line-up) showed more virtuosity I think, particularly with regard to the guitar/keyboards/drums. Didn't Steve Howe say that some of their big works developed from simply jamming? GG don't sound like that to me, though I could be wrong.

    So even though both groups have some points in common like counterpoint vocals instead of harmony and odd time signatures, Yes creates a totally different soundscape, large "washings" of sound with an incredibly volubile guitar player who plays with effects and all kinds of stuff. This is NOT the strength of Gentle Giant; their strength lied in the total dedication of each player to a sound patchwork/very precise mechanic, made up of elements which could be minimalist and repetitive.

    Welcome to "the sweet sound of Gentle Giant"!
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  4. grbl

    grbl Just Lurking

    Location:
    Long Island
    I started out as a big Yes fan back in high school. At the time I was all about prog, so I gave GG a try. First album I got was P&G, and I hated it. Gave it a couple of spins and put it on a shelf for six months. I gave it another try and absolutely loved it. Couldn't figure out why I didn't like it at first. I've been a huge GG fan ever since. My love for Yes faded over time. These days, the only albums I still listen to (and still love) are TYA, Fragile, and CTTE. I still love GG though.

    Don't know if you're looking for recommendations, but, if you are, your next album should be In a Glass House followed by Free Hand. IAGH in particular is an absolute masterpiece - on par with P&G and Octopus.
     
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  5. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming Thread Starter

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    They do take it out there! Did they keep that up live? It feels like GG pushes it further, but harder to tell when it's all still pretty new (w/ lotsa wholes).

    Nice to see you my Thick-gifting bud. I def hear echoes of Brick-era Tull in GG; esp. this new one. Some ELP-like moves as well.
     
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  6. Thanks!
    There are two great gentle giant DVDs you need to check out to see how they pull this stuff off live.:)


    And GG does get a bit medieval at times and even Tullish.
     
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  7. klockwerk

    klockwerk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio USA
    Yes had a first rate vocalist and Gentle Giant did not. This has been the near fatal flaw of many a great prog band.
     
  8. qwerty

    qwerty A resident of the SH_Forums.

    Gentle Giant never had the profile/availability that Yes did in my country. So while I followed Yes for many years, the Giant were a band who's name I knew was associated with prog but never heard. I eventually found one of their albums, and didn't mind it, and liked a couple of two tracks (Funny Ways" and "Why Not"). But they never grabbed me in the same way that Yes did, so I didn't pursue any other of their albums.

    Recently (due to favourable comments about the band on this site), I Wikipedia'ed their catalogue and found that the Giant album I had was their first LP. Maybe my appraisal of the band would have been different had I heard one of their latter albums.

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming Thread Starter

    Location:
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    Beautiful post! Thanks for your perspective. I had to google volubile- but what a great word to describe Howe's wanderlust over his fretboard.

    I appreciate your take on structure and I cede to your better familiarity of both groups. When I think of structure within Yes music, I think of how they always had an emphasis on "song." And they used many classical notions of arrangement. There are themes presented, re-stated, transposed, etc., and there is always a sense of movement towards resolution. Intricate though they are, the arrangements gel in holistic ways and there is a sense of beginning middle and end that flow organically.

    Granted, it took many listens and years of experience w/ this music live and recorded, so maybe that's where my sense that Yes music flows more structurally than GG's. There's so many tails wagging, grooves mutating, riffs developing, that I haven't wrapped my head around it. It just seems more free-flowing to me w/ less overall direction. The rhythm changes so often, I haven't developed the ability to really sync w/ the groove yet- though I can see it, but man is it serpentine.

    As far as Yes composing by jamming, I think that mainly refers to TYA and parts of Fragile. They always worked out things together, but there was plenty of long discussions over parts. CttE was such an arrangement-by-committee fiasco that Bruford said enough, I wanna go just improv w/ Bob. Speaking of Bill, he was always so inventive w/ rhythms, but GG takes that even further imo. From my brief and shallow journey so far.

    And minimalist and repetitive are not words I think of. I can see some passages being described that way, but overall my experience doesn't fit w/ those words. But again, I bow to your deeper knowledge; that's just where I'm at now.
     
  10. Yep, their first album is not their most representative.
     
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  11. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming Thread Starter

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    Well, if you're only gonna listen to 3 Yes albums, those are the ones! Though I love Tales the best (and I'd think a GG fan would be more likely to?). GG didn't click w/ me at first, but I never really gave them a chance. Better late than never.

    I've heard great things about IaGH, but also heard that unfortunately the multi's are gone for it. No SW magic on that. I'm sure I'll check it out at some point. Right now I'm still digesting what I've got. So cool to have the 1st 3 album's original masters in 24/96 on this blu as bonuses! Worth the price alone, but the 3 Piece Suite works surprisingly well as a whole- w/ SW's usual excellent 5.1 (I think his absolute best MCH mixes are for GG and himself).
     
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  12. Sax-son

    Sax-son Forum Resident

    Location:
    Three Rivers, CA
    I started listening to Yes music in and about 1970 with Time and a Word. I started to listen to Gentle Giant around 1973 with Three Friends and worked backward from there. I don't think either band sounds anything alike aside that they were both considered prog rock bands. Although Yes might be considered a more accomplished band, I like Gentle Giant's music better. Octopus is my favorite GG record. The Yes Album is my favorite record by Yes.
     
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  13. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming Thread Starter

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    Yes- medieval. Get that vibe a lot- though pretty different from the medieval vibe of Renaissance, but akin to Ian.

    What DVD's are they?
     
  14. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Both are great bands, essential to everyone that likes progressive rock.
     
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  15. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming Thread Starter

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    That is a huge difference. Jon has an amazing voice and knew how to use it. GG's vocals are not bad, but not near that level. They seem to do a lot of harmonies, but hard to match Jon/Chris (and even Steve's suspect voice works well harmonically).

    I don't see it as a fatal flaw (even near), but it is a big plus for Yes.
     
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  16. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming Thread Starter

    Location:
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    Never too late!

    I actually really enjoyed my 1st listen to Giant. I'm looking forward to the other two. But I'll probably listen to the Suite in sweet surround before I dive into each new album in 2.0. Wash, rinse repeat.
     
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  17. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming Thread Starter

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    I agree their sound is not very similar, but there are many parallels between bands. But I guess most of that comes from both being progressive contemporaries. Just like Yes and KC- their music is very dissimilar, but there are many parallels. I hear more KC in GG than Yes.

    Yes was certainly a more successful band, but I'd think since you like them better, GG would be the more accomplished band- at least for you.

    What's your feelings on the other "Prog greats" like ELP, KC, Genesis, etc?
     
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  18. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical omnivore.

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    They were both great live.

    Anyone like Simon Dupree And The Big Sound who likes Gentle Giant? Same guys. They had a minor hit with Kites in the late '60s, it shows up on Psychedelic compilations fairly often.

     
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  19. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical omnivore.

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    Also from that same time... Stained Glass Window which has a bit of a medieval vibe...

     
  20. Snow2

    Snow2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Eaton
    This.

    I remember listening to some of the classic GG albums and just could not get passed the vocal delivery - the style being a bizarre, clipped sort of delivery like he is simultaneously singing and dancing on hot coals.

    Fans of the band were lukewarm with some of the later albums such as The Missing Piece. The music may not be so innovative but at least I can bear the vocals - especially on a song of the quality of Memories of old Days.

    Jon Anderson has his critics but, for me, he was an essential component to that classic Yes sound - a band who's classic albums never seem to age or grow stale to my old ears.
     
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  21. GG at the GG: Sight and Sound -amazing performance from The Missing Piece tour and excellent sound and video quality.

    And Giant in The Box -older performances, but still good quality.
    Both available at Amazon.
     
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  22. no.nine

    no.nine (not his real name)

    Location:
    NYC
    GG doesn't need any SW magic. :hide:

    They've got GG magic.
     
  23. OMG!!

    It's funny that many people don't like their vocals. I think the vocals were one of their big strenghts (especially when Phil Shulman was still with them, i.e. >1973), placing them not only over Yes (in that field) but just about anybody else from the progressive rock music genre. My daughter also had a friend who was somehow into prog and reacted similarly to their vocals. She told him GG was sort of all about the vocals! Way to go, girl...
     
  24. Yes had Steve Howe, GG had Gary Green. I like Gary's playing but LOVE Steve's playing.
     
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  25. No, no, thanks a lot, but your post makes lots more sense than mine, written in a rush. You make a great point about the structure, and you are right on that aspect, which hadn't registered well enough with me. After posting I pondered a little bit about this interesting thread and how I feel about both bands. There is one other big difference it seems to me, is that the classic Yes can sound closer to jazz actually, when they let loose. A looser form of collective playing, which (at least) some of the band members had the vocabulary and chops to support, especially when they had Bill Bruford with them. Now prior to drummer John Weathers joining GG in 1972, this band featured rather good jazz-influenced drummers, but in spite of that they could never do jazz, collectively, not as far as I can tell from the recordings anyway.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
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