Your Denon DL-301 MKII Cartridge Loading Values?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by utahusker, Mar 29, 2015.

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  1. utahusker

    utahusker Senior Member Thread Starter

    I'm receiving a DL-301 MKII tomorrow, and I'm using a Jasmine Lp2 MKII phono stage. The moving coil loading options on it are 50/100/250/1000 ohms with 70 db of gain.

    I'm know it's subjective, but according to the "rules", you should use 10 times the internal impedance, which is 33 ohms = 330 ohm plus on the Jasmine.

    I'm thinking 250 ohms, but what can I expect if I use 1000 ohms? Too thin of a presentation I suspect. You?
     
  2. utahusker

    utahusker Senior Member Thread Starter

    I received the cartridge today, and so far so good. 1k ohms sounds better right off the bat, but there's some running in to do before any decisions are made.
    I forgot how good Denon MC cartridges sound. Ive owned a few(wood bodied 103,103r,and a Zu 103), but went back to MM carts due to getting back to the basics, and making things simple:) The DL-301 MKII has a deep/wide soundstage with a dynamic meaty sound in the mids and bass, but the highs are delicate with no harshness or sibilance. It tracks like a champ, and seems to match my arm well, and the price is fantastic for what you get.

    Right now I like it a lot, but time will tell.

    I loved the character of my Grado black/8MZ, but the sibilance on some albums was too much for my taste. I believe the Grado sibilance was due to a poor arm mismatch, not a fault of the Grado.
     
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  3. utahusker

    utahusker Senior Member Thread Starter

    I would like to try a loading value between 250 and 100 ohms.
    Someone recommended two 1000k loading plugs which would lower the total to 500 ohms with my phono stage set to 1000K. Is this correct?
     
  4. utahusker

    utahusker Senior Member Thread Starter

    I'll be here all week, don't forget to tip your waitress.:p
     
  5. OcdMan

    OcdMan Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    Yes, a 1000k Ohm resistor in parallel with your phono stage set at 1000k would be 500 ohms. Here's a good parallel resistance calculator. Sorry but I don't have any experience with that particular Denon.
     
  6. skriefal

    skriefal Senior Member

    Location:
    SLC, Utah
    I believe that someone was me. Yes, using a 1000 ohm (not 1000k) loading plug per channel with your phono pre in the 1000-ohm setting will give you an effective 500 ohms. DB Systems (www.dbsystemsaudio.com) will build these for you if you're unable to make them yourself.

    You can use the Parallel Resistance calculator here to test other possible options for loading plugs:
    http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-paralresist.htm
     
  7. utahusker

    utahusker Senior Member Thread Starter

    Thank's everyone for your responses. I emailed David @ DB Systems, and this was the exchange. Kind of confusing.

    Me:

    "Hello,

    I have a phono stage that has MC loading options of 50/100/250/1000 ohms. I would like to load it at 500 ohms. Would two 1000 ohm resister jacks reduce it to 500ohms? If so, what would the price be?"

    David:

    "Yes at the 100 seting.
    $7 per pair + $7 S/H/I"


    I don't really know what he meant, can you interpret it?
     
  8. skriefal

    skriefal Senior Member

    Location:
    SLC, Utah
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
    utahusker and OcdMan like this.
  9. utahusker

    utahusker Senior Member Thread Starter

  10. utahusker

    utahusker Senior Member Thread Starter

    Yep, he emailed me with the correction.
     
  11. utahusker

    utahusker Senior Member Thread Starter

    A little follow up after listening some more. There is a little difference between 250 ohm and 1000 ohms(not a huge difference), the 1K being better to my ears.

    I feel the difference between 1000 ohms and 500 will be so small that I may stay with 1K for a while. This cartridge is a fine buy for the relatively small outlay of funds.

    Very happy with the detailed smoothness!
     
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  12. utahusker

    utahusker Senior Member Thread Starter

    I must say, this cart doesn't make me want to upgrade. Usually I can find something that is missing in a cartridge, but this thing is pretty darn good.
     
  13. senseabove

    senseabove Forum Resident

    So, I recently switched from a too-soon worn 103 that I plan on sending in for a retip, to a 301mkII, and I'm having a bit of a conundrum which I hope loading can help me solve. And I'm hoping you wise folks can help me figure out whether it will do so.

    My setup: VPI Scout Aries--> Budgie SUT with CMMI-3440APC transformers --> Musical Fidelity V-LPS (v. 1) phono pre --> Rotel RC-850 --> Cary Audio AE-25 Signature (with Morrow MA-1 interconnects between everything except Grover U6.s between the Rotel and Cary, all 1 meter long or less).

    I swapped the 301 mkII into the place of the 103, and with the 301 going into the Budgie SUT into the V-LPS MM input, the sound is extremely crisp and detailed but not very engaging. I don't find myself being pulled into the music, or unable to ignore it, most of the time. If I remove the SUT and go straight into the V-LPS MC input, I lose some of that clarity, especially in the bottom end, and there seems to be sliiightly more distortion in the top end, but a much more engaging sound overall.

    It sounds to me like I'm getting some high-end roll-off with the SUT in the chain—but I'm still learning to put words to what I hear, so feel free to second guess or ask for details about that. But, for example, the high-pitched whine on parts of Ike Quebec's Blue & Sentimental was much less noticeable with the 301 via the SUT over my Grado SR-225i's than it was with the 103 in the same setup.

    Now, normally, I'd just pick the arrangement that sounds best most of the time and stick with it, but I'm finding it too close to call. Listening to Julia Holter's Loud City Song via the V-LPS MC input is boring, beacuse it just becomes a muddled mess, but Nina Simone Sings the Blues and the MM33 of Matador sound thrilling. With the Budgie in place feeding the V-LPS MM input, the Holter is intricate and engrossing, but Nina's voice and Grant Green's guitar come across sterile and cold.

    (Note: the Budgie was a DIY kit from a member on AudioKarma who purchased transformers from Cinemag, hence the different number on them than ones directly from Parks Audio.)

    For comparison's sake, while the 103 into the V-LPS's MC input handled classical and strings better, that was about the only thing I found that it handled better than the SUT into the V-LPS's MM input. Depth expanded drastically and staging locked into place with the 103 going into the SUT. Since I mostly listen to jazz, soul, rock, and indie for lack of a better genre, the SUT was a clear winner.

    The numbers I have:
    DL 103: 0.3mV, output impedance: 40 ohms, recommended load resistance: 100 ohms or more
    DL 301 mkii: output: 0.4mV, output impedance: 33ohms, recommended load impedance: Over 100 ohms
    (numbers for both carts from LP Gear or Needledoctor)
    Budgie SUT with CMMI-3440APC: "Impedance Ratio: 37.5, 150 : 50K" (from Cinemag site), using the "LO" 1:18 gain ratio setting
    V-LPS v1 Input impedance/sensitivity: MM 47KΩ/3.5mV MC 100Ω/450µV for 300mV out (from manual)
    Rotel RC-850 AUX input sensitivity/impedance: 150 mv/24 kohms (from manual)

    I've been eyeing the Budgie phono pre with adjustable loading for a long time now, and if loading will help me solve even out this sound so there's still detail but without rolling off the highs, then I'll probably jump on that pretty soon. If it won't, I'll spend that money on the 103 retip and hope the 103 with a better stylus profile solves its IGD problems.
     
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