Your Opinions: New Integrated Amps: McIntosh vs Hegel vs Plinius

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Joey_Corleone, May 27, 2014.

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  1. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rockford, MI
    I would love to hear what you have to say about the integrated offerings from these companies. These are three I have looked into considerably, and am thinking about for a considerable power upgrade to my system.

    1) McIntosh MA-8000 - 300 WPC, integrated DAC, $10k list
    2) McIntosh MA-7000 - 250 WPC, no DAC, $8k
    3) Hegel H300 - 300 WPC, integrated DAC, $5700
    4) Plinius Hautonga - 200 WPC, no DAC, $5700

    I have never owned "high end" stuff like this, so I am a bit new to it. My current speakers are only $1400 a pair Canton GLE 490.2's , but one goal of this project is to put a solid foundation in place such that I can rock better speakers at a later time. Whatever I choose must have HT bypass functionality as well to integrate with my HT AVR. As far as I am aware, all of these do that.

    I love the McIntosh style, brand, and reputation. I have only heard one in very horrific conditions in a showroom and wasn't really that impressed. Granted, it was the WORST environment. Basically, you walk in through glass doors / walls into a huge lobby and they have a rack of Mc gear. Anyways, I would't mind saving up for another YEAR if I knew for sure that was what I wanted...I'm just not convinced I would be getting much more than style and flowing blue meters for that much more $. On the other hand, I could outright buy the Hegel or Plinius very soon.

    I have auditioned the little brother of the H300, the H80 and was fairly impressed with the sound. I just felt I needed and demand a lot more power. This is something I plan to have for a long time, and the H80's 75wpc just didn't do it for me. I need something that can drive my current speakers and whatever I get down the road loud and effortlessly with gobbs of power to spare.

    So, that is my current lineup. What you guys think? If it was your money, what would you get?
     
  2. Combination

    Combination Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans
    I can't speak for the other two brands, J.C., but since I am a Plinius owner, I can tell you that I've been totally happy for 6 years, and have never wanted anything else. And they will absolutely drive any speaker you can throw at it.

    Plinius is frequently described by a lot of people to be very tube-like, even though it's a solid state amplifier, if that helps with wanting to know what they sound like.
     
  3. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rockford, MI
    What Plinius gear you have?
     
  4. Combination

    Combination Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans
    I've got an integrated that's long out of production. You can PM me about it if you want some more specifics.
     
  5. Kkfan

    Kkfan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Music City, USA
    Might I suggest Pass Labs INT-150?

    I've heard it can drive many demanding speakers very well with its 150W. Read about it and see.
     
    art likes this.
  6. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    Any reason it needs to be an integrated or brand new? You could find some nice Mac separates on the used market for well under 10k and since they are built like tanks you can expect long life from these guys (most people who buy gear at this price level take pretty good care of their stuff as well).

    For instance ... a used McIntosh C48 starts off about $3500 (HT Pass through and a DAC) plus an MC302 or MC602 for around $4000. Or if you need to blow the whole 10K you could also add their AWESOME D100 Digital to Analog Converter for $2500 (new) or $1800 (used) ~ this is by far my favorite DAC on the market at under 5K and IMO one of the best bang for the buck Mac pieces they've ever made. I just love this thing.
     
  7. davidb1

    davidb1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
  8. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rockford, MI
    Hi Beowulf,

    Just convenience, and piece of mind that I am buying something new that doesn't have any problems. I am new enough to this where I don't feel particularly comfortable spending that much money (a lot of money for me) on used stuff when I don't know the person well, don't know where it came from, etc. Also, I'm pretty good friends with my local hi-fi dealer, and we have a fairly good relationship when it comes to this stuff.

    If I found some amazing deal I wouldn't be totally against it, I guess I am just cautious.
     
  9. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    There are more good integrated amps available in your price range (Pass Labs and Audio Research come quickly to mind). I think you are making a mistake upgrading your amp before your speakers; speakers are the "voice" of the system, and IMHO the main thing that determines the sonic differences between high-end amps is how they interact with a particular speaker system (not even considering the different power requirements for different speakers)
     
    norman_frappe and jupiterboy like this.
  10. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rockford, MI
    Hi rbbert - I appreciate the advice and caution. Here is a little bit more detail. Like I said, I have the Canton GLE 490.2 speakers. However, I am powering my system right now with a $700 Yamaha AVR. I have never been quite happy with the sound really, so I started looking into options. My amplification is so ridiculously obvious to be the weakest link in my chain so I started looking there. When I auditioned the Hegel H80, the results were immediately apparent and obvious. Night and day. I describe it as drinking a fine wine after being used to Miller High Life : )

    So, I do think upgrading my amplification will make a noticeable different. Also, I know full well this is not the last piece of the puzzle...I WILL upgrade the speakers next. This is just one step in the right direction. I feel I will gain more now with better amplification, then I would buying $10,000 speakers and powering them with a $700 AVR
     
  11. socalcm

    socalcm Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Diego, USA
    In that price range I would also look at the Ayre AX-5. You might also consider separates. You could get the Classe CA-D200 and CP-800 -- a combination that should outperform any of the integrates you are looking at for similar cost.
     
    beowulf likes this.
  12. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rockford, MI
    If anybody has heard any of the originally mentioned integrated amps, I would love to hear from you
     
  13. Preston

    Preston Forum Resident

    Location:
    KCMO Metro USA
    I think that buying used amps/pre-amps/integrated amps is a great way to stretch your budget, as others have said above. I paid $4500 for a lightly-used, two year old Musical Fidelity kW500 integrated amp (list price at the time ~$8000) and have not had a single problem in the nearly 10 years that I've owned it. I believe that most mid-to-high end gear is built so well, that your fear of problems is effectively rendered moot. Speakers are another area in which you can save an enormous amount of money by buying used. Good luck!
     
  14. socalcm

    socalcm Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Diego, USA
    I have heard the McIntosh integrateds, hence my recommendations. I was all set to buy a McIntosh MAC6700 to run my Paradigm Tribute speakers, until I heard it. The McIntosh Integrateds with the Autoformers have a sound that IMO is kind of flat compared to Classe, Ayre, Audio Research, Luxman and some others. Some people prefer the McIntosh sound. You should judge for yourself.

    I got a good deal on an Audio Research DSPre that I paired with a Classe CA2200 amp to run the Tributes. I have not heard the Hegel or Plinius. The McIntosh look great, have excellent resale value, are very well built and will be a big step up from your AVR. If those are your priorities, then you can't go wrong. But for ultimate sound quality, IMO there are better.
     
  15. PROG U.K.

    PROG U.K. Audiophile-Anglophile

    Location:
    New England
    You have a ton of choices in your price range. I am biased as a Musical Fidelity owner but I would certainly recommend auditioning the M6500I
     
  16. roboss38

    roboss38 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Clovis, CA U.S.A.
    Audio Research VSi75. If your looking to spend that type of money on an integrated amp, this would be my choice. Listen to this piece for many hours, and I continue to be impressed by it. My friend has it paired with some Sonus Fabre speakers.
     
    ggergm likes this.
  17. captwillard

    captwillard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville
    I'd only feel good about buying a used Sim Audio or Bryston integrated under warranty (they are transferrable) warranties. A lot of upscale gear is built very well and should last for decades, but I'd be a lo9t more comfortable buying a piece of gear that the manufacturer stands behind for 10 or 20 years.
     
  18. theron d

    theron d Forum Resident

    Location:
    Baltimore MD
    Have you heard any of the Luxman integrated? I recenlty purchased an entry level one used L-505u (100 W Push Pull) and absolutely love it! My friend bought a top of line Luxman590AX (30 W Class A) and its sublime. Liquid mids like a tube amp but powerful driving low end like a SS amp. Just some food for thought...
     
  19. gingerly

    gingerly Change Returns Success

    If you are really going to spend $10k, I think you'd get a lot more for your money by spending about $6000 on new speakers, and $3000 on an amp, possibly used. You could definitely buy synergistic Class A sound for that amount. You are going to hear the most difference from a speaker upgrade.
     
  20. 62caddy

    62caddy Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    In my opinion, devices like DACs should be outboard and not built into amplifiers.

    If resale is a priority, I would recommend a gently used, mint condition MA 7000 which can be had for $5k from a reputable dealer like Audio Classics and not look back.
     
  21. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rockford, MI
    Looks beautiful, but no BT bypass takes it out of the running for me. As much as I would love a separate system, it is not a possibility for me right now
     
  22. ServingTheMusic

    ServingTheMusic Forum Resident

    Location:
    SoCal
    http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-p...ius-hautonga-integrated-amplifier-review.html
     
    Joey_Corleone likes this.
  23. Redux

    Redux Active Member

    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    I disagree strongly in your comments regarding the Mcintosh Integrated. The sound is everything from flat. The soundstage is not as wide as Luxman and a few other brands - but after several benchmarks no amp is more deep and dynamic than the Mcintosh integrated (speaking for MA8000 and MA7900). What you prefer is highly subjective, but non of these amps deserves to be marked as "flat". I spent several months to decide which one to pick, and all of them have their pros and cons.
     
    utahusker likes this.
  24. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season

    Location:
    Minnesota
    I own the Plinius 9200 integrated amp, which is now about 10 years old. The Hautonga is its replacement. I couldn't be happier. My 9200 sounds phenomenal. It has balls galore and yet sounds very sweet, even at louder levels. At lower volumes, when it is operating as a Class A amp, it is stunning. It's thee dimensional, especially at the edges of the soundstage. Most amps have trouble showing depth far left and far right. The amp is fast, detailed and smooth. That's a tough combination to get. When you add the phono stage is damn good, it's very hard amp to beat. (One caveat - use only a MM cartridge. It has enough gain for a low output MC but I got a 60 Hz hum that wouldn't go away. High output MC, MM and moving iron cartridges have all worked fine.)

    My 9200, while not the same as amps costing more, gives me a glimpse of their sound. It's awkward to consider a $5,400 amp a bargain but it is. Sonically, it's cut out of the same cloth as separates 5 times its price.

    I haven't listened to the Hautonga but the 9200 put Plinius on the map. The Hautonga certainly would be worth an audition.
     
  25. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rockford, MI
    I am curious what went into making your decision? Was it just a lot of reading? Testing at the dealer? Testing at home? The only McIntosh dealer within 150 miles of my house said I can't audition equipment at home unless I outright buy it first lol

    Seems like a lot of money to ask for something that you don't even know if you are going to like. What it sounds like in the showroom is going to be totally different than what it sounds like in your room with your speakers

    On the other hand, my friend and Plinius and Hegel dealer will gladly let me take anything I want home for a solid week or more if I want to no problem
     
    gingerly likes this.
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