Your Preferred Stylus Force Gauge

??? Not on any share gauge I've ever seen. When balanced it's much higher than the thickness of any vinyl record.

 

Is the downforce of the tonearm really much different if you measure it a few millimeters higher or lower? what is the reason for this? Personally I think if you remove your platter mat (if using one) the height of the digital scale platfomr is about the same as record level. At least in my setup, the mat and the record thickness is probably prety close, but i haven't measured it. In that pic above, do you play records with no mat? you may be measruing to *low* then.

 

The fact that the Shure guage is higher will be more important to some users than others, mainly VPI owners like yourself and other users of unipivots: those are the users who are going to get the "over read" using the Shure. Other users with conventional arms will be much less effected, if at all (click the "In Balance" link below). If you're setting VTF by ear (which is what you should be doing anyway), it is really not such a big deal as long as the scale gives repeatable and consistent results, which by most accounts the non-magnetic Shures do. You can simply take into account the .2 to .3 gram maximum over read and set accordingly.

In Balance - [English] »

The problem that I have with the Shure is its precision. If you want to get to within .1 gram it's probably ok, but if you have a cartridge with a much smaller window of VTF for optimal performance (Lyra, for example, or even a modified Denon 103R with a line contact stylus in my experience), the Shure just cannot get you there.

There is a misconception out there that all the Canrong derivative scales are pretty much the same: in other words, the $13 Dealextreme scale is the same as the $65 unbranded Canrong or some of the branded $100 scales. It might possibly be, but in my experience the $65 unbranded Canrong that reads to 3 decimal points is not only built to higher standards but also is more precise-kind of goes without saying as it will measure in 1000ths of grams as opposed to 100ths. Having owned both those Canrongs (I had the better scale and used it for about 7 years before it crapped out and I replaced it with the cheaper Dealextreme 2 decimal point model), once the cheap model that I bought recently dies I'll be opting again for the more expensive, more precise Canrong. On the cheap model I bought recently the weigh platform is much more tilted/angled than on the better unit I owned previously. Plus the better model just has better resolution-I had my wife test it against some very expensive lab scales and it was always within .007 grams of $1500 scales when measuring 1-5 grams.

Not particularly important for many users but if you have a cartridge that has a narrow optimal VTF window, say .035 grams, which is very possible with some cartridges, then the more expensive Canrong will be worth it. I wish I'd spent the extra $50 when I replaced my better unit about a year ago and definitely will when the cheaper model I own bites the bullet.

 

Good link, thanks

By the way, what vtf are you using/have used on a denon 103R with a line contact? I have one that has a cantilever/stylus by soundsmith. I generally run them towrds the higher end of the recommended weight, and don't futz too much (i'm not gonna bet on thousandths of grams being very audible), but interested on what you thought works best.

 

I don't use the Denon(s) currently but when I was using 103R's I had both of Peter's line contacts (the standard and the top of the line OCL) but they were also on rebodied cartridges, the standard in an aluminum body and the OCL was on an ebony body. Those bodies are considerably heavier than the stock plastic body so that might make a difference.

But with the standard LC on aluminum I found the best VTF was right around 2.42-2.45 range. I found I could track the OCL a bit lower as I recall-think I ran that one around around .1 gram less in the 2.32-2.35 range if I remember correctly.

 

Have noticed that, too. Bought one SFG-2 in late 1990's. It can be cheap Chinese imitation or perhaps it's an original Shure. But it's precise enough for my modest use.

 

Currently I take the platter off the table since the digital scale I have now is too wide to fit in an area between edge and platter. So I build up the scale to record height, that eliminates the incorrect VTF if the arm is not at playing level. I use a Lyra Delos and this cart is highly sensitive to VTF, so taking the extra time to make sure I get it right is critical......Even my OC9ML/II was somewhat sensitive to VTF, so getting it close or right is of concern.

What this allows me to do also, is take measurements all along the stylus path, which is strange as I get different readings sometimes. Again, I partly blame the MC cart and how it gets attracted to the metal in the scale.....I need a non metallic scale.

 

I was surprised to see this gauge was included with my VPI Classic 3.
I thought they would give the same Shure gauge that I got when I had my VPI Classic 1.

 

^^^ I got that same scale with my VPI Prime. And found it to have the same "battery eating" behavior as the other cheapo scales that I've tried in the past. It does work fine as long as you remove the battery between uses, and the lowered platform helps measure VTF closer to the typical LP-playing level.

 

I think some people get a little crazy with this stuff....

can you really hear the difference of .1 gram...?


cmon...

 

Actually you can with some cartridges. In fact, you can probably hear differences of considerably less than .1 gram. Perhaps not with all cartridges, but cartridges with fairly sophisticated/exotic stylus profiles are much more sensitive to exacting set up, one parameter being VTF, which just happens to affect a number of other parameters. Jonathan Carr of Lyra probably knows a bit about cartridges; his quote below talks about VTF within a range of about +/-0.05 gram and why such a narrow range is appropriate with their cartridges.

"After introducing "New Angle" technology on the Delos, and subsequently incorporating it into the Kleos and Atlas, I am fairly confident that Lyra has achieved a consistent relationship between tonearm pivot height, VTF, and CRA. Having done the R&D, I am also fairly sure that a v-e-r-y narrow VTF range is a necessary condition for achieving a consistent relationship between tonearm pivot height, VTF, and CRA. IME, even a +/-0.1g VTF range is is too broad. That's why our New Angle cartridges have an allowable VTF range of +/-0.05g."

 

I have a balance that came with a B&O MMC4ooo cartridge back in the '70s, it gives me pretty much the same answers as a Chinese digital scale from eBay.

 

Audio Additives Digital Stylus Force Gauge

 

Here is the one I use...

http://www.hifi.com.sg/products/accessory/stylusgauge/digital-01.jpg

JG

 

The chinese digital scale shown earlier modified should not be used that way (same type as James's). Place on the TT and use as intended to get accurate reading. I verified mine against the Shure scale and they give same reading (but extra decimal place with the electronic scale).

 

Bah. If i get skips, I just tape another quarter on the headshell.

 

I have a little cheapie from Amazon that was $11USD and it doesn't drain the button batteries between use. I've been quite impressed with its usability and accuracy.

 

Tried the cheap ones and they are OK, but at some point they failed for one reason or the other, so went with the Ortofon DS-3. It's worth it if only for the piece of mind

 

I just have one of those cheap ones from amazon and it seems to be pretty accurate, however I do have one question. Should the reading be the same regardless of if you put the scale near the outside or inside of the platter? I also noticed slight reading variations if the tip wasn't inside the black circle on the scale, but its only like .02 grams so I really don't think that's a big deal.

 

I've owned I've owned four different cheapies -- three different varieties (2x of one of the types). Of the four, all but one were battery eaters. Sure, you can get lucky, but it's more likely that you won't. If you're willing to try a few cheapies until you get one that works, then go for it. It'll still be cheaper than an Ortofon scale. But if you'd like something that is likely to be problem-free from the start, go with the Ortofon or one of the other more expensive re-tested/re-QC'ed units.