YOUR Record Cleaning Methods (Disc Doctor or otherwise...)

Before I describe what I'm doing (other than saying I'm following the directions to the best of my knowledge), I'm curious to know how all of you are using your Disc Doctor fluid and brushes. I'm not at all pleased at this point, having had better luck with the cheaper cleaner and a VPI record brush I bought from Audio Advisor several years ago.

So, what procedure do you follow? I'd like to compare notes and find out if it's the records, or the lout using the brush, fluid and vacuum.

 

OK, here's what my take on the Disc Doctor method has degenerated into:

1) Take LP, give it a quick run under the tap to get some moisture in the grooves and wash away some of the dust. DD brushes are 'soaking' meanwhile, one in distilled water, the other in distilled water with a couple drops of Photo-Flo.

2) On an old turntable, get the LP spinning, hold the water-only brush to the grooves (no pressure, just holding in place) for a couple revolutions.

3) Switch to water-and-fluid brush, hold to LP until whole surface is covered with a ~1 mm film of fluid.

4) Leave it to 'sink in' anywhere from 5 to 30+ minutes, depending on my mood . Replenish fluid ocasionally (it dries out) by giving LP another couple turns with the wash brush.

Remember to squeegee the wash brush now and then with a toothbrush handle (don't press too hard on the velvet!).

5) Repeat steps 3-4 spinning LP the other way.

6) Give the LP 2, 3, or more 'scrubbing passes' with the wash brush. Scratch like a DJ while holding brush in place, anywhere from a 1/4-1/2 turn to short 1" strokes.

7) Repeat steps 3-4 spinning LP forwards (no need to wait as much).

8) Repeat steps 3-4 spinning LP backwards. You can throw in an extra scrubbing cycle somewhere here.

9) Run LP under the tap to wash off excess fluid.

10) Repeat steps 3-4 with rinse brush (no need to wait as much, replenish rinse water frequently). Do this forwards, backwards, even scrubbing if you like.

Water should start 'beading' on the LP surface again as the surfactant is washed off. Take LP off the turntable every now and then and tilt it over a container to get rid of dirty rinse water. Repeat rinse cycle a couple times or more.

11) Air dry.

These processes are always easier done than said. Instructions make it seem very involved but it really isn't, and it works well for me.

The worst I get is a bit of white fluff on the stylus on the first play or couple plays, probably Photo-Flo residue. It doesn't stick to the tip the way crud does, so don't worry.

The difference on some LPs after cleaning is nothing short of unbelievable. I don't dust the LPs afterwards, nor do I clean them again.

That's my take on it. Maybe it works for you too

 

I can't stand the thought of any brush that was used to clean a dirty record, being used again to clean another record.

I can't see putting a very gritty thrift store record in a cleaning machine that could be used later to clean a long out of print mo-fi, a RCA Living Stereo, or a delicate Japanese pressing.

And I sometimes need to use my finger nail to scratch (in the direct of the grooves) out some gunk from the grooves. I wonder if any brush can feel these kinds of dirt, and know how to dig without harming the playing surface.

So I have come to the conclusion that my old fashioned way of cleaning records is the best and cheapest. I use diluted dish soap and running cold tap water. You take a bottle of dish soap (original clear green Palmolive is my favorite) that is 1/5 full, fill with distilled water and shake well. In an hour or so you will have a nice thin soap for easy rinse off.

You hold record under the running cold tap water, and then splash a nice thin layer of soap over one side. You brush the palm of your hand over the playing surface in direction of grooves. And feel for any particle of food or goo that is not going to rinse right off, and rub that area a little hard, but always in the direction of the grooves. Give a quick once under the running water, and flip and do other side. Then rinse again both sides, rinse both hands, and rinse again. Get all soap off of LP completely. Set LP upright leaning against wall on counter, and dry hands. Give the LP another rinse with distilled water (if this is at all an important album), and then dry with a clean soft terry cloth towel in direction of grooves. Pat labels dry, do not rub labels. Use a clean cloth for each record, or a new area of the same cloth at least.

This method can ruin the original look of certain labels and cause slight bubbling. Other labels come out just fine after being drenched over with H20. One needs to learn which labels can handle water, and which can't without some slight water damage.

Labels that can handle water without any noticeable marks are Apple, Capitol, Atlantic, and other flat matte type labels. Old Columbia 360s can handle water only if there is no rubbing at all during washing or drying. I ruined the look of an old Mono Dylan Blonde on Blonde by rubbing a bit while washing.

If you have a glossy type label like an old green WB, you need to be very quick with the wash, and keep drying the label every other second. I used a piece of tissue with WD40, and gave a label a nice thin coat of WD40 once before a wash to keep the label perfect, and that kept the label dry. Once an old Jazz record on 6 Eye Columbia Mono Kind of Blue, and I wanted to sell it off after doing a needle drop. That worked perfectly. The label had a darker tint from the WD40, but after one day, that faded away, and the label had no water damage, and the grooves were super clean. Other times I could care less if the label has slight bubbling at the end of the day, I simply want a super clean record to play and enjoy on a high end system. I don't like any dust or dirty record near my turntable.

I have been using this method for 25 years. I've never had a record become noisy or moldy, or acquire any issues. I have been told that the deposits in tap water will ruin an LP, but I've never cleaned a record this way and had it not become better sounding.

Once all the dirt is out form the grooves, the stylus can sit down deeper into the grooves and tracks the music better.

One thing to note, the LP needs to sit outside of the jacket for a full day after this type of cleaning to completely dry.

I do a lot of transfers of rare radio shows from vinyl to CDR, such as the the original King Biscuit Flower Hour, BBC, Westwood One programs. This is one of the shows I borrowed last month and did the remaster of:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2596142855&category=43708
Would I risk this (borrowed) LP if I were not sure about my cleaning methods? I feel that with a high end cartridge, brand new stylus, good quiet turntable, and records cleaned this way, I get exceptional results. The CDs sound spectacular, and the LPs (and labels) have no damage whatsoever from this deep cleaning. Steve Hoffman did some work for the King Biscuit when they issued some compilations on CD in the 90s. I use his mastering as a guide for sound quality on this type of live material.

And if this does damage the vinyl in the long term, like dry out the natural vinyl compounds, it may take 200 years to hear that. And I've sold about 300 LPs on ebay and never had one person ask if I did anything to dry out the vinyl. Or any comments like they could hear rust deposits in the grooves. No problems. Can't beat the price!

Jeff

 

My Disc Doctor method

This is a copy of a post I made a while ago in another thread. It's been working for me, on hundreds of records, ever since I bought the Disc Doctor stuff at the end of 2001. I clean brand-new records as well as old, and am very happy with the results on all.

The Fremer column I mention was very detailed, and it's worth seeking out if you're really interested in this.

"I use the method Michael Fremer suggested in one of his Stereophile columns a year or two back. I am very, very satisfied with the results.

"Apply Disc Doctor fluid with one Disc Doctor brush, then use an Orbitrac pad to remove the excess (but not to total dryness). Then, rinse with distilled water using the second Disc Doctor brush ... and vacuum, or air-dry (I use a Record Doctor II vacuum machine from Audio Advisor). After that, I add a second rinse and vacuum (after cleaning the "lips" of the vacuum with the cleaning tool provided with the Record Doctor).

"I couldn't be more pleased with the way my records sound (and even look) after this process. I truly believe they're as clean as they can be; a quick dry-wipe before and after each play with a good carbon-fiber brush (I use AudioQuest's) is all that's ever been necessary after one Disc Doctor/vacuum cleaning."

 

Damian--your method sounds interesting except that where I'm at, the tap water is so horrible that, I kid you not, I smell like chlorine for half the day after taking a shower, and boiling a pot of water results in a heavy white residue in the pot. (And to think some people drink this stuff?? ) One of these days I should boil a pot of water, let it boil down to about half the volume, then post a pic here. Scary!

 

Hmm.. maybe running the LP under the tap is not 100% necessary. I do it just because, but you could do without, I guess.

Either that or get an empty water bottle and a shallow pan, fill the bottle about halfway with distilled water and pour from the bottle, with the pan below to catch it, then back into the bottle and again.. no need to throw away liters of distilled water for a quick rinse. Reuse it.

 

Don't even think about getting an old Capitol gray/turquoise/purple/maroon label wet, and especially soaked - it will be ruined.

 

That's a different piece and, while it's a useful introduction, it's much less voluminous and specific than the three-page column I was referring to, which ran in Fremer's regular "Analog Corner" spot in Stereophile ... in the March 1997 issue, to be exact. He revisited the Disc Doctor, with more procedural recommendations, in the July 2001 issue.

If you use the Disc Doctor stuff, I'd urge you to track down and read at least the '97 column, and ideally both.

 

It's weird, but this is the second time in a row that I've written one of my bi-monthly columns, and the day after I've turned it in, the subject I've written about is being discussed in detail here! (Last time it was phono preamps.) Unfortunately, it won't appear on line until next month, or else I'd just post a link. I have come to some general conclusions about record cleaning over the last few weeks, and here they are:

1) The differences between VPI and Nitty Gritty machines aren't as clear-cut as it seems. People overwhelmingly prefer the VPI, but when you follow up, you find that most people either buy one brand or the other, and stick with it, mostly because both machines last so long (I've used my Nitty Gritty for almost 20 years now). In other words, you don't find a lot of people who have used both, and prefer one or the other for specific reasons. In truth, both machines have advantages and disadvantages. VPI 16.5s are noisier and slower than Nitty Grittys. They are built better, but are more expensive. Nitty Grittys do leave a ring of wet fluid around the outer edge of the LP, but with the VPI you can get the center label wet if you aren't careful.

2) Brushes and fluids make a bigger difference than the actual machines. The machines only seem to offer varieties of conveniences that appeal to users for different reasons. At the end of the day, the quality of cleaning between a VPI 16.5 and a Nitty Gritty 2.5 is about the same.

3) For best results, use the Disc Doctor brushes with your record cleaning machine, not the supplied brushes. For me, the best results are achieved this way.

4) The Disc Doctor method, which involves distilled water and air-drying, may be the best way to clean your records, but man it's a pain in the butt. I don't know about you, but when I clean a record, it's generally because I want to hear it right then and there. Washing records ahead of time and placing them back in their dirty sleeves and covers doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And solutions to THAT problem are too anal-retentive for me to consider.

5) Sckott's "in the sink" method for cleaning records also works really well. A lot of people e-mail me asking for low-cost alternatives to record machines, and in the past I've told them that they really need one. Now, I can tell them Sckott's method. I posted a link to Sckott's post here in my column, so people can read his instructions for themselves. I hope you don't mind, Sckott! (And maybe it'll bring some more good people to this forum!)

So, I'm using my Nitty Gritty 2.0 with Disc Doctor brushes and Record Research Vinyl Wash, and I'm getting great results, FWIW.

 

I won't disagree with you about the DD method being a bit of a pain ... but I'm willing to go through it given the results.

If I used the DD-recommended air-dry method, I'd probably be less satisfied. Like you, I want to hear the record right away ... That's why I've adopted Fremer's hybrid Disc Doctor/vacuum-dry method. I get the benefits of a good Disc Doctor cleaning, but then I can play the record as soon as I lift it off the vacuum.

 

I use the "Spin Clean" it is cheap and works very well. I start with the cleanest record then work may way thru up to about 15 albums per trough of solution. I purchased some really nice micro fiber towels that I use to dry the albums with as opposed to the ones you can buy with the machine. Is it as good as a vacum machine? Probably not, but for less than 60.00 including micro fiber towels it works very well. On a side note I found a nice antistatic cloth at my local photo lab for about $6.00 that I use before every play I also use a "Dust Bug' as well.

 

Rudy, my cleaning method is simply, effective, cheap, and easy, with only drying time being the "pain" part. I do this in my kitchen sink so there is a little set up and cleanup prior to record cleaning. Make a diluted solution of water and Dawn dish soap. Dawn really does take the grease away. Set up some lint free towels laying flat on the clean counter. Set my tap water running so it is just warm to the touch and flowing gently. The brush I use is one of the more expensive short nap, synthetic bristled, edging brushes (the square, flat looking brushes that are used for edging without taping). Get the brush good and wet by rubbing your hand over it while under the tap water. Place the soap solution in a pie pan (I like glass pans) and then get the brush soapy. Wet the record and then rub the brush in the grooves using just enough pressure to make it track. The short nap of the bristles tracks very nicely and gets the grooves clean. When the entire surface of the record looks uniform you are done cleaning. Use a different edge brush to rinse the record grooves and keep the soap and rinse brushes seperate. Let the record drip for a second or two, then place it on the lint free cloth for about a minute, flip...another minute, then stand on edge until completely dry. Now go enjoy your clean record for all its worth.

 

That's the downside to the way I do it, using a turntable. Gotta do one side at a time.

I usually do two or three LPs at the same time (since I wait for the wetting agent to soak in anyway), which is sort of a way around this.

 

And be real careful about Blue Note labels as well. Sadly I know from experience.

 

I use the Lysol Direct method mentioned here previously and vaccum the stuff off the disc with my Nitty Gritty. Works like a dream.

 

Sinc you mentioned it, what is in Lysol Direct? I'm trying to find a local equivalent, but couldn't find any info on the 'net.

 

Lysol Direct is a multi-purpose cleaner. I have some in a spray bottle although I don't use it for record cleaning.

 

Here is what I do for LP's that do not seem to clean up with just Disc Doctor. My extended
cleaning process (this is an extension on the cleaning process put forward by Mike Fremer in the Tracking Angle). It consist of the following: 1 - Microcare Premier LP spray (low wetting angle, floats dirt to the top), 2 - Vinyl Zyme (a mold and organic crud remover), 3 - LAST power cleaner (very powerful cleaner, but it can leave a residue), 4 - Disc Doctor LP cleaner (considered to be the best all around cleaner), 5 - A double rinse with distilled water, the second rinse is vacuum dried with a VPI machine. All of the fluids are hand applied with either LAST or Disc Doctor brushes and none of the fluids are allowed to dry on the records except the Microcare spray which evaporates very quickly as part of its cleaning action. It takes about 15 minutes per side. In between cleaning sides I rinse the brushes with distilled water. I use a lot of distilled water, but at $1 a gallon jug it does not cost much to be safe rather than sorry.

 

Still lurking and reading here. I'm trying another variation on my cleaning method this afternoon to see if I can improve things. My first impression right now is that the Disc Doctor brushes are a colossal waste of money.

 

I PUT MY RECORDS IN THE MICROWAVE FOR A MOMEnt (then I realize my shift lock button is down) just to loosen the grit. Then I use some gasoline with steel wool just for some light scrubbing. It usually does the trick.

Seriously, I've had some excellent results with the DD fluid and brushes. I let the brushes do their thing on several rotations around the record (about two minutes on the VPI cleaner). I apply and suction off the fluid two or three times. Then I do two rinses with distilled water and a clean DD brush. This usually gets most of the dirt, mud and small fury creatures off the vinyl.

 

A miniature Tazmanian devil?? Hmmm...I guess I should quit using the S.O.S. pads and 60-grit sandpaper on the vinyl, eh?

I've been battling the DD brushes for the past month now, and I'm truly convinced of what I suspected before I even bought them: they do not get down into the grooves!

Right now, I just did a very difficult album, Shorty Rogers' Afro-Cuban Influence, RCA Living Stereo, LSP-1763, released 1958. It has a couple of stretches where there is nothing but conga drums or Shelly Manne's drum kit, sometimes playing as quietly as a whisper, on both "Manteca" and the "Wuayacañjanga" suite. I went back to my old method, using the DD brushes as applicator brushes, but using an older VPI record cleaning brush to get down into the grooves and scrub the crud out. This LP wasn't in the best of shape when I got it, and sounded in spots like it was wiped down with a damp rag (a "rush" of noise with every revolution).

Well? The VPI brush did its job, just like it used to: it cleaned up most of the dirt. I also am using a soak/scrub/soak/scrub method as I always have. Water by itself is a powerful solvent, and much like a blob of dried egg yolk on the counter, soaking something for a few minutes to loosen it is far more effective than scrubbing furiously at it...and just wiping over dried egg yolk with a sponge won't even faze it.

My previous attempts with the DD brushes all ended up the same: I hear more crud on my vinyl, and it sounds like it's wet crud, that dull gushy sound of dirt that has been washed down into the bottom of the grooves. It sounds exactly the same as the time I used a cheap Discwasher clone, wet, on a couple of LPs and turned them into a murky mess. (Albeit nowhere near as bad, but the character of the sound of the dirt was the same with the DD brushes.) With my VPI brush method, I can hear the tape hiss on this LP I just worked on. It sounds like music again and not dirty old vinyl. The clicks I hear now are very sharp and defined ("sparklies", I call 'em), not dull and "muddy" sounding like "the cruds". And with past experience, some of the "sparklies" tend to go away with repeated playings.

The problem with felt brushes is that although it feels like they are "grabbing", the nap of the felt just seems to fold under and clean the top of the grooves. I had this problem with a previous felt-based cleaner, and to me these brushes feel no different. So I basically bought two molded pieces of rubber and two 50 cent squares of adhesive-backed felt for an outrageous sum.

For the cleaner? I can't really tell if it is cleaning better than the cheaper alcohol-based fluid I've been using. I do like the idea of rinsing, but this DD fluid, requiring at least three rinses to get it off the vinyl, makes me think it is also leaving an unwanted residue. Not rinsing clean, IOW. I do repeated rinses with the rinse brush until I see no more of the "soap bubbles" on the vinyl, and the water beads up evenly. That seems to signal a clean record.

I did start off following the DD recommendations to the letter, using my vacuum as suggested. I even ordered a new felt strip for my vacuum, but I knew that wasn't the problem. I've tried light pressure, medium, whatever...same results. Tried scrubbing for five minutes straight and, again, no difference. I just seemed to be rearranging the crud, where the VPI brush seems to be able to get it out of the grooves better. I did read an article a few years ago that made me consider the VPI brush, in fact: although it seems dangerous, it's not, considering the force the stylus asserts on the groove. And I've already cleaned at least a hundred LPs with that brush with no ill effects.

One thing to note is that the age of the vinyl I clean is probably older than what most others here are used to buying and, beside dirt, there very well could be mildew and mold down in those grooves as well. I may try something like ALP uses, the Vinyl Zyme, and see if that helps as well. A lot of the albums I buy are of the age and type my parents might have owned, and could very well have spent some time in a damp basement or dark closet somewhere. Using more than one cleaning agent, based on the type of dirt, seems like a good way to go, and flushing everything clear with distilled water certainly has its advantages as well, something I'd not done previously with other cleaners.

There was nothing like the old Nitty Gritty Power Cleaner #2 (if I remember it correctly). It nearly evaporated on contact, but it was the best thing I'd ever used for some of the really stubborn LPs. It's discontinued...it was quite powerful.

I'm going to try a few more LPs this way and see what happens, including cleaning a few I've cleaned previously.

 

Rudy, Help me understand what you mean by your VPI brush, is it the one on the VPI 17F record cleaning machine. If so be careful. I agree with you that it does a better job of getting into the grooves than the DD brushes, but it is nylon and hard, it can scratch some of the softer vinyls. I only use if when all else fails, same with the VPI fluid only when all else fails (I am a physicist not a chemist, but all of my chemist colleagues say vinyl and alcohol is not a good idea). Vinyl Zyme is the best stuff I have found for mold and I agree with you that a lot of old records have mold on them. With the VZ stuff your dried egg analogy is right on. Put the VZ on and let it soak, it will not evaporate, you will have to mop it off. It seems to me that record cleaning and cables are the two most controversial topics in audio. I am sure a detailed study of either could lead to a Ph.D. thesis. By the way that old Nitty Gritty fluid that evaporated right away was probably freon based, and while an excellent cleaning agent not very green by modern standards, it probably had to be reformulated

 

For the cleaner? I can't really tell if it is cleaning better than the cheaper alcohol-based fluid I've been using. I do like the idea of rinsing, but this DD fluid, requiring at least three rinses to get it off the vinyl, makes me think it is also leaving an unwanted residue. Not rinsing clean, IOW. I do repeated rinses with the rinse brush until I see no more of the "soap bubbles" on the vinyl, and the water beads up evenly. That seems to signal a clean record.

I did start off following the DD recommendations to the letter, using my vacuum as suggested. I even ordered a new felt strip for my vacuum, but I knew that wasn't the problem. I've tried light pressure, medium, whatever...same results. Tried scrubbing for five minutes straight and, again, no difference.


I used the DD system for almost two years & had the same problems. No matter how much I rinsed there was always a residue. I switched over to the Record Research Lab Deep Cleaner & Super Vinyl Wash & could not believe the difference. I still use the DD brushes & a vacuum machine. It is the DD fluid, IMO not the brushes. And I have saved so much time as the RRL does not require rinsing & does a superlative job.I had 45rpm reissues that were blank on one side & I could clearly see residue from the DD fluid that multiple rinsing with distilled water did not remove, which the RRL fluid removed with ease.

 

I did some research late last night, and one thing I read was that artist paintbrushes that you get at an art supply store are supposed to be REALLY effective at getting into the grooves and sweeping out the gunk. Makes sense, actually.

I bought a set this morning and I hope to try this method out later. I had been using the red fabric "lint" brushes but I think they are a bit too abrasive on the surface of the records.

Has anyone here used this method?