so right now my routine is: clean record with audio intelligent fluids record using an apogee duet into audacity at 32/96 and DC offset there, export to wav use ClickRepair in semi-automatic mode at 5-20 depending on the record age/condition, x2 open in RX4, play through and look for anything obvious and clean it up, make the dead space in between tracks sound better if it makes sense (fade in / fade out) export to 24/96 FLAC MBIT+ level 8 done! thought on how I can improve this? should I move to full manual declicking in ClickRepair or just use RX4, my ears and my eyes?
I DC offset after a fully automatic clickrepair at 14 (mostly) pitch and reverse ON and simple wavelet ON. I bet you could go full automatic clickrepair and never look back.
Just a tip for those who high-pass filter, you can save a step by not doing a DC offset as the high-pass filtering does basically the same thing. In fact, most modern audio interfaces should result in very little or no DC offset so if you're getting a lot, check your drivers, software, etc.
I'd say your approach is pretty thorough so the question is more for you, do you feel a need to improve it? If the results already sound good to you, then that's really all that matters. If not, then maybe you need to change something. Full manual declicking is extremely tedious work no matter what program you use. RX would be easier given the spectral view, which if you play around with it a bit can reveal clicks that the traditional amplitude graph view won't necessarily show. One big tip I can offer for RX4 is to redefine some keyboard combinations to increment and decrement the Spectral view FFT settings. First set the FFT in spectral view to "Regular FFT" (since the auto one doesn't allow incrementing/decrementing), then redefine your shortcut keys. For example, in my case, I have Ctrl+Shift+up arrow set to increment the FFT and Ctrl+Shift+down arrow set to decrement the FFT. Once you get used to working with it, you'll find it's really easy to find clicks and other problems needing work just by changing the FFT settings. This kind of setup works something like a focus control on the spectral view and affects different frequencies in specific ways. As you go up in FFT settings, the treble becomes blurry but the bass becomes clearer. Dropping FFT blurs the bass but sharpens the treble view for awhile. Eventually everything gets buried as the resolution decreases but somewhere in the middle, you can often find a click or thump that seemed really difficult to find will suddenly come clearly into view and you can then get rid of it using the interpolation, declick, or spectral repair tools (play around with each until you get a feel for what works best for specific cases). I also assign keys to some of my most used presets. For example, my F12 key applies interpolation. My F11 is for a spectral repair of the attenuate type set to 1.8 strength, F9 is delick single band 1.0, F8 is declick random, strength 7 (very powerful but will dull transients so be careful with it).
@Stefan, thanks for your reply and tips! I'll def be adding some of these into my RX workflow (in addition to the others you've left in this thread). I'm debating moving my entire workflow into RX, as well. I guess the only thing I need Audacity for is DC offset.. can't seem to find it in RX. Short answer: yes, I feel like my my rips could be a lot better! But, now that I think about it, the more I feel it's my cart/phono (2M bronzem MM/Rogue Audio Sphinx integrated) that's limiting me, not my ripping process, which I feel I have a solid foundation (even spent an entire weekend balancing/isolating my TT which solved a lot of right channel drag issues and more time than I care to admit tracking down a constant renegade 28KHz tone in spectral view that ended up being a light dimmer switch.) I did an A/B test of my TT against my vinyl rip playing the same album, and it was about identical minus the clicks, which was a really pleasant surprise. But A/B tests of other rips of the same album are a different story, mine sound a little dull and veiled off. Less airy and individual definition of the instruments. After that, I guess I want to get rid of more surface noise and hum the most, but want to stay away from doing any processing over the entire length of the rip. I think I can achieve what I'm looking for with the right combo of LOMC/SUT/Phono stage. I agree spending the time manually de-clicking might be better spent recording another record, so I'm going to leave automatic ClickRepair in. It works well. I've taken queues from some rippers I follow, pbthal and Prof. Stoned, and grabbed an AT33PTG/II, and a budgie 1254 SUT. I'm debating recoding straight out of the SUT into pure vinyl and using their software RIAA correction. I also might pick up one of those elusive Magi Phonomenal I hear good things about. I'll post differences I find after I make these upgrades if anyone is interested in how different gear affects rips for a wider audience to check out... now I just have to figure out how to get my TT into Pure Vinyl and bypass the phono.
I'm glad I've been of help. This can be a truly rewarding hobby and I learned a lot from discussing it here and elsewhere with others. One point I'd make is that you seem to be really focused on DC offset. Are you finding your rips have a significant amount of it? If so, then yes, it's wise to apply some removal of DC offset, but if it's some small number like 0.0002% I woudn't worry about it. No, DC offset removal is not built-into Rx, but you can achieve it using the EQ in digital mode with a sharp cut-off at 20Hz. DC offset appears as a peak down around 0Hz, so any high-pass filtering will remove it. Alternatively, you can find several VST plugins that do the same thing. For example, if you have iZotope's Ozone, there's a DC offset removal function in the maximizer in the same section as dither. You don't actually have to enable the maximizer part of it to use the dither or DC offset removal. If you google freeware DC offset VST, you'll find several other options as well. However, again, I wouldn't worry about it unless you're getting significant peaks down around 0Hz. If so, then there could be something wrong with your hardware setup. I've seen significant DC offset on some old 80's CDs (some of which are even considered "holy grails" by some members here) but it rarely shows up in any material I've seen since or in my needledrops.
One trick I found is that when you slice the album side into individual songs, be sure to ramp down to zero (fade out). I found that if the end of the song is sudden, even if it is just on the noise between tracks, there can sometimes be an audible click as the samples drop from the noise level to zero. Even a fairly small step can be audible. So I always fade to zero at the end of each sound. I also fade in from zero at the beginning of each song although I've never heard any issue if I don't do this. Terry
@Stefan I didn't mean to sound like I was harping on DC offset.. truth it, I added it to my workflow awhile back and never put any other thought into it.. and I'm trying to add less steps to my workflow, not more. If I can do everything in RX I'll be a happy camper... now if someone would turn Click Repair into a VST plugin... I usually DC offset/gain immediately right after recording, before declick. (is this fine, or should I wait until after declicking?).. I see a lot of conflicting advice here... My thought is that bumping up the gain up before de-clicking might make them more visible/audible during analysis. Here are my settings now for the spectral view. Do you mess with the different window algorithms much, I've left mine at Hann and never messed with it. I bumped up the amp range for low to brighten the entire thing up. I also have a hotkey for switching Frequency scale from Linear to Extended log if I want to dig into problems in the low end.
Do you guys needledrop records that may already have a decent cd release of? Do yours still turn out better? Can they? Right now I'm just focusing on stuff unavailable on cd.
Ozone looks interesting... is there any of the mastering stuff that might be helpful? This adding vintage tube sound looks like cool!
Oh man, absolute tragedy... I broke the needle on my 2M bronze tonight. I can't remember the last time I did something this stupid. I was putting the guard on, my fingers slipped a LITTLE, and SNAP. bye bye needle. Good news is I have an AT33PTG/II coming with a Budgie SUT 1254 (same setup as @vinyldoneright, I believe). I figure now is a good time to send my SME M2-9 tonearm to get cart-back re-cabled cable and remove the connectors. Cart straight into phono. I'll be back up and running in a week or two.. hopefully. Bad news is I'm out 350 bucks.
They can, condition as you know plays a big part, I like what my cart/phono pre gives/takes away from my transfers compared to the cd edition, sometimes they sound better, sometimes just different, but I'm a fan of all formats, I have no preference, but like you I tend to lean towards the unavailable stuff also, 12 inch mixes etc, forum member Ascot does a fantastic job with them and has a nice yt channel showcasing some nice mixes + I have cats so doing transfers is a must for me, It's a fun hobby, I'm actually doing some New Order Rhino's right now to compare to my originals, should be interesting Edit: Doing transfers is also a nice for those who don't want to deal with pre-emphasis cd's and want the original master, Elo-Secret Messages is one example
For me it's a mix of stuff unavailable on CD and also stuff that I'm likely to never pay to "upgrade" to CD. And a lot of the vinyl I have is probably available in a decent CD version, but I already have the album and I'm really trying limit my CD purchases now to stuff I don't have in any format or CDs I really really want. I have a relatively low end rig, but I've been satisfied with the quality of the 'drops I've gotten out of them. At least satisfied enough that I don't feel compelled to purchase a CD or high res download. I can live with just the 'drop.
I've played around with delicking before and after gain adjustments but I didn't really notice much difference. I have a regular setting but I'm at work and it's at home, so can't see for sure whether it's Hann or Hamming. I also leave the amplitude low range at about -106 or so. Otherwise, you get a lot of stuff onscreen that's way down below what you can hear yet you spend time focusing on it when it's not necessary. Also, reducing the time for "Reduce quality Above" made my system much more responsive and didn't seem to harm the usefulness of the spectral display.
It depends on the material. I prefer the mastering on a lot of LPs compared to their CD counterparts, so that's one reason. I also feel that high frequencies, especially cymbals haven't really sounded as good on CD as LP until the last few years, so there again needledrops sound better to me.
I want to ask a question, what A/D audio interface are you using? I currently have a Duet 1 firewire, but looking to get something a little newer. The mic preamps on it aren't all that great, and I want to mess around with recording straight in from my LOMC cart and using software RIAA, so I want something with high quality preamps. What are you all running, and have you had experience with: Apogee Duet 2 Zoom TAC-2R RME Babyface Pro Focusrite 2i2
That's essentially what I do, except I generally use 0.62 for input, record at 48,000 Hz, 32-bit float, I do use Audacity's click removal (which works really well), and I amplify the album (as a whole, not single tracks) to -0.1 dB peak amplitude. Then save as aiffs, and convert to ALACs (with XLD) for iTunes. I'm extremely happy with the results.
Hey all, it's been awhile. After working through a lot of different tools and techniques I have a new "current best approach" for archiving vinyl. This is just my own personal taste after trying different things out. for me the change in sound doing noise reduction is generally not worth it. Given the choice I prefer the noise vs less noise and change in the source audio. that's just me. I am using RX4 primarily. so now my approach is to apply some EQ with the IK Sontec 432 plugin to taste, and then bring up the level with Pro-L to just where it might clip. in other words really no effect on dynamic range. All done at 96/24. The source: Benz Ruby 2, Linn Ittok lv2, Oracle Delphi, VTA PH15 tube phono stage... yadda yadda. one significant thing is my monitoring system has been calibrated. so I am working with more of a known response. also the DAC is a Lavry DA10. Here is a sample of this process. This is a 1 min section of a Ptarmigan song and then Steely Dan. the Steely Dan is vintage vinyl and has some wear and you can hear some this in the left channel. These samples are intended for educational purposes and so I understand are ok to use for this purpose. If the copyright holders want me to remove them I will, please PM me. https://www.dropbox.com/s/2f24k4ivpwlmt6j/vinyl master example.flac?dl=0
I have some drops that are for sure better than a CD issue and others that are just different. I find it fun to have those rare titles not ever issued on CDs, and do a spectacular job needle dropping them. I might spend some time doing a good 600dpi scan of the cover artwork as well. It's always nice to have that as well as label scans. I tend to do the recordings to hard drive, and then work on the files later when I feel like it. I just did six albums from vinyl to flac encodes last night. One of these albums had been on my storage drive for about eight years. I just used ClickRepair on it in reverse and then in forward mode then split up the tracks, did soft fade in and fade outs on the LP sides and it was ready for tagging and artwork embedding. All of these albums were recorded to drive previously. It's nice to sit down and have the files all ready to work on without handling records and turntables. It's a different mindset sort of. That album was Larry Coryell - Spaces. Ground breaking early fusion 1970 with future members of both Return to Forever and Mahavishnu Orchestra. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaces_(album) I'm looking forward to kicking back and hearing my drop of this soon. I didn't listen to it as I worked on it last night, so the music will be fresh to my ears. I also did Curtis Mayfield's Sweet Exorcist, his last album IMO of interest before he dried up. Original pressing. Then I worked on Bob Dylan - Desire quadraphonic LP. A mint copy of the 1975 original pressing but with ticks and clicks all over side one. With ClickRepair I was able to get this one to sound clean and clear. Some interesting mix differences in the quad version.
This thread has been of enormous benefit to my development of a good process for needle dropping. Between trial & error and reference to this thread I believe I have nailed a process that gets results I love. So thanks to all contributers. My needle drops, to my ears, have been far superior in A/Bs I've done with well mastered CD versions. For example Dark Side of The Moon sourced from my Australian Quadraphonic vinyl compared to the MFSL CD. I have just picked up a copy of Band On The Run in used bins which still needs a really good clean. If its in good condition for needledropping, I'll be curious to see how it compares to the 24/96 (unlimited) Hi Res digital version. I am achieving these results using my modified (pre amp removed & rubber mat added) AT LP120 TT with the AT95e cart it came with. The TT is connected to a Rega Fono preamp, with RCAs running from the preamp directly to my Sound Card, a Creative Soundblaster X-Fi. The Sound Card has 24/96 capability and I have had no issues with it. I am thinking of ADCs however nothing in the affordable price range has me convinced that it will be significantly better than my current Sound Card. I'd prefer to wait and spend more on something with 24/192 capability, that can apply a RIAA curve to the incoming signal. I use Izotope RX4 for the whole process, which is as follows: * Obviously I first thoroughly clean the records that I plan to needle drop. * I record the record, a file of each side of the record, capturing at 32 (floating)/96 Wave. I set the levels to peak between -12 & -9 dB. This ensures any occasional spike probably stays below -6 dB. * Once I have captured the record, I tidy up the beginning and end of the sides. Then having worked out that my TT's right channel is consistently 1.6 dB louder than the left (probably due to the inability to do an azimuth adjustment with my current head shell) I use Channel Ops to adjust the azimuth reducing the right channel by 1.6 dB. I then listen to make sure the left/right balance is OK. * Next is the clean up stage. I run declick, I find the optimum setting on the RX4 is M-Band Periodic Clicks with a sensitivity of 3. That usually does the job nicely. I then check for any residual clicks and noise, if necessary cleaning them up with the Declick: M-Band Random Clicks with a higher sensitivity or use the spectral repair or at times the decrackle, dependent on the issue. * After clicks, pops & other anomalies are clean, I then denoise. I will take a quiet bit (usually the start of the record) and Learn with the Spectral Denoiser. I then apply the Denoiser at silences or in quiet parts if needed. That completes the cleanup. * I then amplify the files. I have experimented with normalisation and was dubious, then I found that the normaliser on the RX4 worked a hell of a lot better than what I had tried on Audacity. However, I still found it to be a bit too arbitrary, leaving files lacking in volume. A high spike in the recording would be normalised to -0.3 dB leaving the body of the sound at a low level. So now I amplify the file so that the peaks are just below, or touch or even slightly exceed 0dB. Use of the ears is important here as I listen for distortion when adjusting the amplification. * I then EQ, always. I will always apply a High Pass Filter at 20hz at least. I will also apply a Low Pass filter ranging from 20000 to 30000hz. Then I usually make other adjustments, depending on the record, those adjustments are gentle tweaks and usually downward. Although, for some records I may slightly boost Lows & Low mids. The important thing is use of your ears. * Then I use RX4's excellent Declipper. I set it a tad below the highest peaks to start, then I listen and adjust. Usually, this will result in the declipping to thresholds between -0.6 dB & -1.5dB. I set the Make Up gain to -0.5 dB with the Post Limiter On. I am then left with a clean and great sounding file. * I finally dither down to 24bits. I have found that a setting of Low dither and no noise shaping works best when dithering down from a 32bit (floating) to 24bit. * I then export the files as 24/96 Flac.
Sorry if been asked before.. but if I record and apply effects in 32 floating, save as 16 bit, then import the 16 bit files later to work on some more... should I then export the newly tweaked 16 bit files as 16 bit again? Will this lessen the quality? Thanks.
I just regained access to my LP collection that has a lot of MOFI recordings. I have not read through the entire thread here but are USB turntables a bad thing?