Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

I just downloaded it and will see what's going on tomorrow.

 

That explains the 18kHz cut. The AAC file is not going to help as much. I suggest you look on sites like Musicstack Vinyl Records and CD Marketplace - MusicStack and find another copy.

 

Would playing the record wet lessen or eliminate the noise?

 

I don't believe he has the record anymore.

 

Exactly. And it looks like it is a hard one to get again. Long hunting around I think. That’s why I need to do what’s possible to clean what Ive got.

 

Did you listen to my sample was it any better? I was able to quiet the noise in the gap in front reduce the sibilance and remove some deep buried pops. You could demo RX6 and work on it. What I did was pretty simple honestly may be as good as it get from an AAC source.

 

Where is your sample? I cannot see the link.

 

The send space link be careful what you click a lot of adware crap. you want blue download button. sendspace — Postimage.org

 

Yep. Great job given the difficulty of this noise. Sounds better. Seems like RX6 is quite a good tool for this.

 

Hey all! Today was my first day ripping vinyl. All gear is in my profile but just for quick reference:

Turntable setup: GEM Dandy PolyTable Super12, AT-ART9 cart, Lounge Copla SUT, Lounge LCR mkIII phono pre
Anthem Statement D2 - configured to "copy main" digitally via coax digital to the input of a sound card in my PC that has coax digital in so there is no extraneous ADC beyond what the Anthem is doing (and I happen to be exceptionally fond of)
Only using Audacity at this point to capture the digital signal, to make sure it all worked. I may look at other solutions after.

I did nothing beyond capturing the stream for the linked file. No denoise, no de-click, and I'm sure that will be obvious in the first few seconds. I'm not that worried about it right now, but want to run this by you guys to make sure you're not hearing anything untoward. To my ears, played back on the same setup but through Roon as a FLAC file, it sounds very good.

I did have to play around with recording level a little bit and managed to get it so the peaks don't seem to hit 0 but frankly, I didn't dig THAT far into it. What I can say is that prior to doing so, things didn't sound quite right on the louder, more dynamic passages so I do believe bringing the input level of the table down in the preamp, plus lowering the record in level just a tad on the PC, helped.

I hope this kind of file is ok - it's a flac of Supertramp - COTC - School and a little bit of track 2. It is the full song so if I have to cut it down, please let me know. I also hope a link to a Google drive is acceptable. I'm open to suggestion, and yes the intro to this is a little noisy. It's a MoFi issue and it's not my "jewel" of this album, but I figured it would have the dynamics I wanted to see if I could capture digitally.

Thanks for any tips, suggestions, and now I go back to reading this behemoth

01 - School.flac

Best regards.

 

I wonder how you guys deal with voice distortion on ripped vinyl given the available software like RX6 or other. Please share your techniques and tricks to make distorted records sound audible.

 

I'm new to Izotope (I have Izotope RX 6) and while I figured how to use declick, decrackle and so forth, I have a nasty feeling I dont use the app to its full potential, despite having watched the YT tutorials

Here is a list of issues I have:

what's the optimal sequense between these: declick, decrackle, de-hum, de-noise?
I can't seem to figure out how to MANUALLY remove clicks
How do I know what is the optimal level of correction for de-clip?
Do I need to have a "blank" section of the record to use de-hum effectively?
And by the way, how does one use de-hum?
I am still totally baffled by spectral de-noise: what am I supposed to look for

I often use Jamaican 45's that are badly damaged, what settings should I use?

I know it's trial and error and trust your ear kinda thing, but any method would be nice nonetheless...

What do professionals use? How do they approach the whole process and what do they do to make their results so wicked???

thanks

 

Crash course on vinyl transfer, apply as needed: You may skip a few steps of the actual transfer to save time and if not fussy about the sound:

The best practices for transfer is the obvious but not always possible, find the best sounding sources possible. If a record is scratched, worn, or dirty, there are methods to clean up the transfer for the cleanest possible waveform. More on a few digital tricks I use, possibly helpful, but first this:

The transfer: analog domain
1) Deep scratch repair, a manual "surgical" procedure if you will, with a fine needle, magnifier and bright light. Scratches transfer material into the groove, and it is this extruded material the stylus hits, and what makes most of the noise. When this extra material is "relocated" or picked out, the scratch may become entirely inaudible. This method is only practical for one or two repeater scratches, not for numerous scratches.
2) Purchase a 0.6 conical stylus for worn, scratched records. Most major manufacturers supply this option/ replacement for some of their models, Shure, Ortofon, AT, etc., but the 0.6 may be harder to find, but not impossible. The smaller conical makes a small "footprint" lower in the groove, hopefully below the wear zone, and further removed from surface defects. The record plays much more quietly.
3) Invest in a record cleaning machine, or a Spin Clean. Dirt and debris from wear and poor care needs to be removed from the groove. There will always be a remarkable improvement in fidelity and lowered noise.
4) For a mono 45 or LP. choose the cleanest sounding channel. Also you may sum the L+R channels to mono, which tends to reduce noise and distortion. See Hoffman discussions on "double Y connection" for mono.
5) High quality equipment and the right stylus makes your time-consuming effort more rewarding, more worthwhile. Hopefully your needledrops will be listened to and enjoyed for years to come, so why not do the best possible transfer?
6) If a record is severely in need of signal processing, (dull or muddy recording) I have found EQ'ing in the analog domain sounds more natural, and does not corrupt the waveform as digital EQ'ing can do. (technical reasons too complex to get into at this time) The risk is to get it right, or wrong, so I always take the conservative route, ie: a simple treble curve that could be undone if it's wrong. Sometimes a sound recording has a particular "sound" meant to be extra bassy, or perhaps honky in the treble.. it's a matter of not making bad decisions with the EQ.

Digital processing:
Minimal is always better, Digital processing is powerful but be careful.. going crazy with compression, eq, noise reduction will result in diminishing returns. Conservative is safer, and less likely to corrupt the waveform.

1) Tick removal: I've had success with creating a "noise track". Some practice and learning curve for this can be expected.

a) Copy your waveform to a separate track. Do this in dual mono panned left and right (not a stereo track)
b) Using EQ, apply a deep rolloff of bass and mids to the noise track, leaving only the treble from about 3 kHz to 20 kHz. (or 5 kHz to 20 kHz) You may have to apply as much as -60 dB to get there, repeat the EQ curve.. verify by using the spectrum analyzer. You want no bass nor any mids on the noise track. You will see on the waveform, very clearly where all the ticks are. The wave form will be very low level since we have removed everything except treble.. so we need to increase the level to make it workable. The treble level is exactly the same as the original at this point.. even though the waveform appears tiny.
c) Increase the level by +10 dB or so, to make the ticks easy to see. This must be decreased later by exactly the same, -10 dB to cancel the ticks on your waveform.
d) Manually silence the audio between the major ticks. This may take several minutes or much longer according to how many ticks you want to cancel. At this point, the noise track should be silent except for the ticks.
e) Invert the noise track, opposite phase.
f) Reduce the level by the same it was increased (if +10 dB for easy visual, you now apply -10dB) It's imperative the noise track level is the same as the original waveform. or the ticks will not cancel.
g) Test Play the L ch waveform with the L ch noise track. If done properly, the ticks will be gone, completely inaudible. (after step "d" can do this as a smaller sample to see if its working)
h) Test Play the RT ch waveform with the RT ch noise track. The noise track must be in perfect synch with the original.
i) Merge the waveform to the noise track, voila! no noise! This method does not compromise the waveform as de-click programs can. If the original waveform was not too corrupted by the few samples of the "tick" the original waveform will be mostly restored. A few samples not entirely restored to original will not usually be audible, and if so, barely audible vs. the tick that was very audible.​

In some instances ticks can be deleted manually. Another option is to eliminate the tick by re-drawing the waveform manually. If only a few samples are removed with the tick, the perceived timing/ tempo of the music will not be noticed, not usually. Be careful! Removal/alteration of a "bass line" not at its null points will corrupt it, and result in a tick, and audible annoyance.

2) Use a tick removal program: If the above noise removal methods are too time consuming (as this can be for many ticks) then go with a tick removal program. The above method (#1) has a far better result and preserves the originality and fidelity of the waveform.

3) For clipped recordings, Audacity has an effective "clip fix" tool. I am certain other programs feature this. The clip fix will repair with some accuracy any clipped waveform, either from poor mastering, or levels set too high during your transfer. (if a loud waveform, remember to reduce level by a few dB to allow clip fix to draw the peaks)

4) EQ: probably the most over-used mastering tool, conservative usually best, and smooth curves. The wild curve often results in coloration and added harmonic distortion. Too much eq, applied too many times may result in diminishing return. Pro monitors are essential to "get it right" and in a controlled space. For obvious eq issues, just a really bad recording, just use your ears, do it on the fly!

This can be a lot of fun, enjoy!
Steve VK

 

wow, are you doing this for a living or for fun???

thanks a lot for taking the time to write all of this so clearly

 

A lot of us do it for a hobby, but have had years of experience. I've been doing needle drops for 20 years. I am actually working on one now. I'm in the quality control stage where I listen to each track very intently and listen for any remaining clicks and other anomalies. Once I confirm the album is a pristine as can be, I will name the files, dither to 16-bit and convert to FLAC, further tag them with artwork, and archive.

 

This is very good. I find a lot of it in my process although that part on clicks removal (1) is something new and I need to try it. So far I was doing large clicks manually through the software (Amadeus Pro) and smaller clicks and ‚frying’ effect with decrackling mostly (RX6 or ClickRepair). I wonder how you deal with the surface or broadband noise. This for me is the toughest part as at least in my case I cannot reduce it fully and without audible loss in music.

 

If that's the case, you are not using good software, or you are trying to take out all of the noise.

 

You may be right. This is the reason I asked the question.

 

yw! it's a double life as an audiophile and a musician, do have some experience doing sound.

 

Thanks! I have not used a program but have read they work well when not overdone. The reduction of crackle (frying effect) is certainly more challenging, and maybe there's a way to reduce it without a program. I've not tried that, but think by any method, the waveform has to be affected by "crackle" noise reduction.

 

Crackle reduction is a very, very hard thing to get rid of or reduce without affecting the music.

I remember using a very unconventional method for doing that on at least one very, very crackly 45 that was otherwise hopeless. It's called the "Younglove" method, discovered by a guy named David Younglove about 28 years ago, using a Cool Edit plugin called ClickFix. It involves using a very strong setting on the file, leaving only the clicks, copying that result, then inverting it, pasting it against the original file, which results in varying degrees of removing the noise. In the case of one 45 I used it on, it worked quite well, leaving few artifacts. So, I spent about six months manually declining the rest, and then carefully applying reverb to add back the ambiance. The results sound fantastic. I used a different program and technique to remove the crackle from another otherwise hopeless 45. But, again, I spent months manually declicking it too. When I manually declick, that involves going through each second of music listening for every minute click! Extremely labor intensive! It takes months because of the number of breaks for exhaustion, and life getting in the way. These were very rare 45s I could not find copies of, but mean the world to me, and one has historical value.

Certainly, there are software solutions that cost thousands of dollars that can do what I did, but I don't have that kind of money.

 

Since i'm back in the needledrop business, i'm about to start transferring my mom's old 1963 Reader's Digest set of The Magical World Of Melody. Then, after that, i'll do another Reader's digest set.

One day i'll get to a Reader's Digest country set a co-worker gave me.

 

Another option is to transfer in stereo, then use Brian Davies' EQ software to chose the specific part of the groove that contains the most content information, thus reducing background noise (one actually does this in reverse, by selecting the area of the groove with the least audible signal, then switching back). The process is described on Page 12 of his manual: http://www.clickrepair.net/downloads/EQManual.pdf.

At work we have a phono stage that can do this: flip a switch and you hear the 'stereo' portion of the mono disc which comprises mostly of hiss and some recorded content, twiddle the input balance knob until one hears only noise, then flip back into mono and - hey presto - the background noise is greatly reduced

I believe this method can yield greater SNR than simply picking the L / R channel or summing.

 

I’ve tried this. All it does is make a more precise balancing of the L & R before summing.

It’s a nice idea in theory. But in practice, unless your cart’s channel separation is significantly misbalanced (in which case you have much larger issues), I found it to be way too much effort for negligible inprovement over just using the stereo>mono summing function in ClickRepair and otherwise processing as normal.

 

Yes, in my experience, a lot of noise can be eliminated by the canceling of out of phase waves that occurs when summing the two channels. this is especially so for regular rumble, lower frequency vinly background noise, etc. Even a lot of clicks and pops are out of phase so they get greatly reduced with summing. Picking one of the two channels can be more effective if one channel is badly damaged or has a lot of noise. I have an old copy of Pet Sounds like this with some really noticeable noise in one channel for Caroline No. when needledropping it, I tend to sum everything but that one song. I do the summing digitally so there are no electrical issues.