Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion - Come Dance with Me (released 1959)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by serge, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. mick_sh

    mick_sh Hackney diamond

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain

    Where you can clearly see there's no lapel in the suit jacket.

    Overexposed:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Only Frank's hat seems the same to me.

    The coffee cup might look the same if it was in shot, though they probably didn't reuse it. ;)
     
  3. Tom Campbell

    Tom Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Yes, it's funny, folks tend to get shamed or ignored whenever these public domain releases from the EU are mentioned. But they are perfectly legal (in the EU, at least), and sometimes -- sometimes -- they are done carefully and well by real fans.
     
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  4. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Actually, the crease in his hat looks different to me.

    And look at his shirt collar: The album cover has rounded tips and a collar pin. All of the other photos (including the black-and-white posed shot with Frank blinking his other eye) have pointed tips and no pin.
     
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  5. mick_sh

    mick_sh Hackney diamond

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    Sorry, but I strongly disagree. To be legal is not same as to be right. So, because I'm a Sinatra fan and I live in Europe, I can "steal" the recent MFSL masters of ASA and SFSL!, send the copies to a CD replication/printing company and make my own edition. Then I can sell it "legally" in Europe. Is it legal? Yes. Is it right? No, IMO.

    I will ask Shawn and Rob what do they think about it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
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  6. Tom Campbell

    Tom Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    What are you disagreeing with? All I said is that it is legal to reissue public domain recordings in Europe -- which you acknowledge is true -- and that sometimes this is done by true fans who go the extra mile to put out a quality product.

    I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll add that I agree with you that it would be legal, but wrong, for someone to steal Mofi's superb and painstaking work on ASA and SFSL. No question about it.
     
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Photo fun:

    Anybody have an actual "hard copy" of the May 3, 1991 issue of Goldmine? Here's what the cover looks like:
    SinatraGoldmine.jpg
    A zoom in on the music gets this:
    SinatraGoldmine5Zoom.jpg
    That looks to me like the title, underlined in orange, is very possibly "JUST IN TIME," with only the JUST I part visible. Also, if you look at the first line of actual lyrics, it looks like the lettering may fit this: Just in time I found you just in time ......"
     
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  8. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    That's one of many color studio photos which yielded the cover of the 1959 LP LOOK TO YOUR HEART:


    No doubt that it's the music sheet for "Just in Time" (recorded Sep. 30 and Dec. 9, 1958), if you examine this photo:

    0337_1476.jpg

    0337_1476-zoomed.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
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  9. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
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  10. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    IMHO one of Mr. S's poorest recordings. "Now yer heeeeeeeeeeeeeear." always grates on my ears!!!! And it is a boring, unimaginative arrangement.
     
  11. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    For Just In Time, my two favourites are Dean Martin's and Mel Tormé's. As much as I like Frank, his version doesn't do it for me like those two do.
     
  12. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Great find - thanks Matt!

    I wonder which session it's from - like Bob notes above, it could be the earlier one which was not used for the album.
     
  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    The question is: Were these photos usually taken before or after the recording session? "Just in Time" was the first song attempted at the Sep. 30 session, and the last recording on Dec. 9.

    It's a pure guess on my part, but since these sessions were held at night and ended near or after midnight, I would think they took such publicity shots first. That might mean Frank is holding the lead sheet for the first upcoming number, and these were taken at the session of Sep. 30, 1958 (for which the master of "Just in Time" was not released).
     
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  14. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Off hand, I can remember two songs we can see sheet music in the shot - one at the Capitol Tower, "Close To You", which was the last song recorded at the session, and another at United, "Please Don't Talk About Me When I'm Gone", which was recorded in the middle of a session. So, I don't know if when a song was recorded in a session will necessarily help.
     
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  15. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I'll admit it was a reach. :) What we need is a working DeLorean.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    "Ill Wind" is in that shot of Frank without a tie at Melrose, right? That's from the middle of a session too...
     
  17. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    And as we all know, all such Capitol photos were staged, since the actual sessions took place at Radio Recorders. Right, Matt? :D
     
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  18. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Possibly in support of your theory, Bob, there is another picture from this session at MPTV with a clock in the background. Looks to me like it says 9:20.
     
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  19. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Great catch, Jordan! It so happens that, according to the union contracts, the Sep. 30th session ran from 9:30 p.m. to 12:30 a.m. So that would mean the photo was taken 10 minutes before Frank started recording the unreleased version of "Just in Time." The Dec. 9th session ran from 9 to 11:15 p.m., and the 9:20 clock time would be during recording of "The Song Is You." Strong support for the earlier session date.

    0337_1482.jpg

    The eagle eyes on this forum are nearly as good as a working flux capacitor!
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
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  20. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    I love when this happens.

    edit: can't believe Frank agreed to come in early for a session.
     
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  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Even more so: The clock photo shows the not-yet-expanded, original-size mono control room, which was expanded sometime shortly after the "Sleep Warm" sessions with Dean Martin. [EDIT: See correction in post below.]

    That's teamwork, guys! :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I take it all back! That post above is off by a year. October (or so) of 1958 is when the mono and stereo recordings began sharing a common mic set up. The control room remodel was a year later, so "late 1959," not 1958. Sorry!
     
  23. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    The control room changes might be mid-'59, Matt, from what I remember on that old AES paperwork.
     
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  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Hmmm....from the 1962 AES paper:
    Screen shot 2014-03-27 at 6.09.56 PM.png
    ....
     
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  25. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Thanks Matt - was there another bit of paperwork you sent me that said something about earlier in the year? Or am I just not remembering correctly?
     

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