Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality (and general discussion): Singles, Soundtracks, Etc.

No audio clips posted yet, but some interesting fodder for discussion regarding Well, Did You Evah:
http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1956_-_SinglesEtc22.html

 

The article from Billboard with the June 25 date is on my page about "Well, Did You Evah," here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1956_-_SinglesEtc22.html. (See "Capitol Preps Promotion on 'Society' Wax" article.)

Also, I think that the High Society stereo LP *may* have come out in 1961, based only on the date quoted on this UK reissue:

 

Like this?

 

Re: Well, Did You Evah

Audio clips and details about edits and mixes, now available: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1956_-_SinglesEtc22.html

(This page is formatted differently than those that came before it, with links to audio clips running along the right margin, so be sure to open your browser window far enough to see the clip links.)

 

Update: Thanks to our pal Rudy, I've now been able to confirm that the opening on the That's Entertainment remix is lifted from the domestic Capitol soundtrack CD (panned-in stereo), and I've also been able to post an actual wave sample. http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1956_-_SinglesEtc22.html

 

So here's my question: What's with the two distinct mono mixes, one released in 1956 (full-length on LP, shortened for the 45), the other not released until 1995???? Any ideas?

 

Re: Well, Did You Evah?

Ah...thanks for the recommendation. That would certainly be one of those "I'd be surprised" moments, but considering how many of those have cropped up, I certainly wouldn't 100% rule it out. Anybody have the EP set?

Possibly. I'd love to know how those tapes were formatted. They can't be Left: Orch; Center: Vocals; Right: Orch, as is the case with most Capitol 3-tracks. (I realize these were created at MGM and provided to Capitol.) The vocals are clearly split left and right, so they can't be on a single center channel. Maybe Left and right contained the stereo "studio" elements (orchestra AND vocals on both channels, one vocal per channel), and the center was dialogue/"live audio" so if Capitol wanted to include any of that, they could???????? I dunno.... [EDIT: Nope, this can't be the track layout. Doesn't jive with the Celeste Holm stuff.]

I love detailed responses like these! Please, people, I implore you: Listen, and share your thoughts! Thanks, Martin. (And Martin, I happen to agree with your comments, but even if I didn't, "thank you" for posting.)

Re: Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?

No, not the game show!

I have audio clips and a detailed explanation (including a Mickey Rooney video from my childhood) as to my "top choice" of off-the-shelf, available versions here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1956_-_SinglesEtc23.html

 

We've been checking out some of the High Society tracks, and as I listen to "Mind If I Make Love to You," I think that maybe none of the "stereo tracks" on the Capitol stereo mix (at least the tracks we've checked out so far) include a stereo orchestral track. I think the orchestra is in mono on all of these. I'm pretty sure it's a mono orchestral track in the stereo left channel, with "chamber" from that track fed at nearly-equal volume to the right channel. (Some songs that don't benefit from the chamber effect, such as the Satch-heavy tracks, seem to use delay rather than chamber to achieve a stereo "effect" on the band.) It provides a pretty good orchestral "wash," but it's not stereo in the typical sense.

So, do the three-track tapes have orchestra on one track, with two tracks for vocals????? "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" has that "spread mono" orchestral sound, with Frank and Celeste on different channels in the stereo mix, so the vocals were not on the same track on the 3-track. Impossible.

Weird.

I think the assumption (and maybe I'm assuming too much) has been that Capitol received mono mixes in 1956 and 3-track work parts later on (for 1961 stereo LP release), but those stereo mixes are so danged lousy that I wonder if in 1956 Capitol received a 3-track work tape from MGM, and that tape was used to create both the mono (1956) and stereo (1961) LP mixes. Having orchestra in mono and two tracks of vocals makes perfect sense if the plan was to make mono mixes.

Even the overture has the orchestra left, "faked" to stereo, with the little jazz band bits -- also mono -- at right. Following the same line of thought as in the preceding paragraph, if the plan in 1956 was to create a mono soundtrack LP, it would make sense for Capitol to receive the orchestra on one track and the jazz band on a second, so those elements could be properly balanced for mono release to Capitol's tastes.

Same deal with other non-Frank tracks, too. Little One? Bing on a track; orchestra in mono on a track; Satch on a track. Again: Logical for mono mixing. El-sucko for stereo.

 

Re: The circa 1989 High Society soundtrack:

Both "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" and "Mind If I Make Love to You" have common mastering on the circa 1989 soundtrack CD and the 1996 Norberg-mastered Complete Capitol Singles set, so my guess is that Bob Norberg mastered the soundtrack CD, but, for some reason, was not credited.

 

Re: The 1989 (or so) High Society soundtrack CD:

Yes:

Re: Mind If I Make Love to You

Another interesting track (at least to me) from High Society. The previous two tracks we looked at had custom-recorded-for-Capitol intros that did not appear in the film. "Mind If I Make Love to You" actually has a perfectly usable 6-measure intro in the film, but the Capitol version has only a 4-measure intro. What's extra strange is that the 2002 In Hollywood CD also has that same four-measure intro, not the 6-measure version that is in the film.

This song also has a custom-recorded-for-Capitol instrumental coda to close out the song. The conclusion of the song in the film itself is a very pleasant meandering string-centric piece that rolls on for about 1:15 beyond the end of the vocal. The In Hollywood CD fades out very early in this coda, while the Capitol versions have a formal closing, tastefully done with pizzicato strings and harp.

Also, while other High Society tracks were remixed from mag film for In Hollywood, this track was derived from the 5.1 mixdown, not from the mag stems. There is a funny balance thing in the 5.1 mix that finds the flute obligato part mixed into the center track along with Frank's vocal, and they sort of compete for attention there. That characteristic is carried over to the In Hollywood set, through no fault of the production team on that disc, whose talents I respect tremendously.

My "top choice" on this one goes to the mono mix, but the sound is actually pretty poor. The sound quality on the In Hollywood CD is better by a mile, but the fade out at the end kind of leaves things hanging, while the closing on the Capitol version is sublime, so...the mono gets the prize from me, but with major sonic reservations. (Regardless, the mono version is far superior to the whack-o faked-up stereo on other Capitol releases.)

In the end, no version here is perfect. In Hollywood is the obvious "best sound" winner, but with some (what I guess could be called) "aesthetic" concerns with the edits. The mono Capitol mono wraps everything up in a nice little package, but is a definite step down in terms of sound. Both have their plusses/minuses, eh?

Clips here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1956_-_SinglesEtc23.html

I'm not sure if many people are actually taking the time to listen to this stuff (only two people have commented on the clips here in six days, aside from yours truly), but I have found these tracks to be utterly fascinating. "Please yourself, and you'll always have an audience!"