Yes!? NO! - The all purpose Yes arguing and complaining thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Harvest Your Thoughts, Jun 27, 2014.

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  1. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

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    I think they would, but only because Jon Anderson has a rather large personal following, and the extra people who would attend would attend anything he does no matter who ( or if) the backing musicians are.
    Then again, if they did a tour with Trevor Horn singing and did Drama complete, perhaps the same thing would happen.
    Classic lineup will likely always draw a bigger crowd, no matter which lineup it is.

    In reality, chances are the most successful tour they could possibly do would be to have Trevor Rabin back and do a Big Generator tour. With ANY previous or present lead singer.
     
  2. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

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    He compared Yes *today* to Rush *today*. It may very well be a different music climate but the fact is many rock acts from the same generation as Yes and older can and do fill major arenas when they do major tours and command top dollar. They are not all that few.


    I agree but I think that is because they have worn out their welcome over the past decade with sub par performances featuring a couple of sound alike vocalists. If Genesis were to do a tour with Gabriel and Hackett they'd sell out stadiums all over the world in minutes. Had Yes not worn out their welcome they would easily be in the same position now. Don't get me wrong, I have very much enjoyed many of those tours that contributed to this situation. I am glad that I have had the privilege of seeing my favorite band many times over the years. But I think it is fair to say that they have tarnished their legacy and their standing in rock music over the last 10 years and that is in no small part why they are relegated to state fair status unlike bands like Rush.
     
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  3. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    The whole Anderson question is complicated for me. There's no question that he was essential to their early success and their overarching vision to a large degree. He contributed some of their most memorable songs and gave their excellent music a human focal point that fans could identify with. At some point, however, I think Anderson became more of a liability. His lyrics grew increasingly cheesy and heavy handed in their new age schtick. He also acquired a reputation for being a bit of a dictator, butting heads with Howe and Squire on numerous occasions. By the end, they simply couldn't agree on a path forward for the band and they wasted several years in the mid 00's dithering about what to do next.

    For these reasons, I was willing to give the post Anderson band a chance initially and I personally felt like they came through to a large extent on Fly From Here. I appreciate Trevor Horn's vision as being distinct from Anderson's yet compatible with the Yes sound overall and I thought they did a pretty good job delivering Drama II, their freshest sounding album since the 80's, IMO. But I guess that this trick of repackaging old Buggles material could only work once. Now we have another Anderson fill in, one who sounds even more like the original than the last one, to the point where his lyrics even recall Anderson's themes of spiritual ascension. If JA isn't essential to Yes' sound, why did they hire someone who sounds so much like him? And it seems pretty clear to me that Howe and Squire are largely out of gas in the songwriting department if they have to rely on all of these different collaborators to help them get the albums done. I was pretty surprised that they let the largely untested Davison have such a big hand in the writing on Heaven & Earth and I can only assume that it was because the others had nothing better to contribute. At this point, it comes down to egos and I think Squire/Howe have just grown accustomed to calling the shots themselves rather than bending to Anderson's will.
     
  4. Classicolin

    Classicolin ‘60s/‘70s Rock Fanatic/Crown Kingdom Guitarist

    Location:
    Ohio
    My Yes opinions:

    I prefer Tony Kaye to Rick Wakeman, although I love both and realise Fragile, Close to the Edge, and the others wouldn't have been what they were w/o the latter.
    Alan White was not right for Yes. At all...
    There are two classic, definitive Yes lineups - the Yes Album lineup and the Fragile/Close to the Edge lineup.
    No Anderson, No Yes.
    Their first two albums aren't too great, but they have many gems which go criminally unknown:

    "Beyond and Before", from their first album, 1969's Yes, is one of their best songs, IMO.



    Yes (1969 Debut), Tales of Topographic Oceans and Going For the One are their best albums outside of the non-classic run 'trilogy'

    I haven't even bothered to listen to anything from Tormato after.
     
  5. zen

    zen Senior Member

    This is true. I've also noticed most of these oldies who sell out arenas (in the USA) are soft rock bands (ie: Eagles, Fleetwood Mac). Perfect timing for "old folks" who never wanted it too intense, too loud, etc.
     
  6. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

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    Rolling Stones, Rush, U2, Bruce Springsteen....off the top of my head
     
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  7. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident

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    Chernigov, Ukraine
    Upsettingly enough, Anderson's latest album was also not his original stuff, but music of some random folks he chose to record. Open is the only indication that he still has some of his compositorial mojo.

    Agree with Tristero that Squire and Howe finally understood how wonderful it is to be decision maker without the third one. Judging how much beef there has been between many members throughout all the time, I would not be surprised if Squire and Howe suddenly have a falling out.
     
  8. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

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    It wouldn't be the first time Squire has fired Howe.
     
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  9. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    As a moderate fan of the band I have the following stance towards their output.

    1968-early 1970:
    Interesting proto-proggressive music. I am singling out the first studio album as a keeper - the material from the 2d and the 3rd got superior treatment in subsequent years and that's the way I enjoy it. I would love to see some live tapes with Peter Banks officially releases, as they tended to stretch out their songs on stage in a psychedelic manner.

    late 1971-1972:
    Two landmark studio prog albums, which deservedly sit on my shelf. Some fine live recordings too. The absolute peak.

    1973-1980:

    In search of the lost mojo. Studio albums are for me a mixed bag, but there is some damn fine material scattered on each one, all of which I generally prefer to hear in superb live renditions from their 1976-80 tours. A lot of hostility has been turned against "Tormato" and "Drama", most of it undeserved IMO.

    1982-1994:
    First Cinema period as I call it - they should have stayed with that name. Various lineups, not all active under Yes moniker, but none of the music was comparable to what had been released before. They say that "90125" saved Yes, probably just like MTV saved rock in general. All I can say that Trevor Rabin was a good fit and talented tunesmith for that new era.

    1995-1996:
    Resurrection of the old Yes and the best studio material since 1972 (IMHO) divided into two "Keys to Ascension" volumes, although the second one has unfortunately a faint flavour of a modern synthetic post-production, typical to Cinema periods. Classic prog exquisitely written and played in the glorious old school manner, met with the incredibly hostile reception from contemporary Yes fans.

    1997-now(?):
    An understandable retreat to Cinema-style music, with continuous lineup reshufflings in search of a new tunesmith and quality material. Again, not my music style at all, but "Fly From Here" had arguably the best new school material since the 80s. I have not heard the new one, but I am not particularly curious.

    The studio albums do I have on my shelf: "Fragile", "Close to the Edge" and "Keystudio".
    Would I go to check them live in the current lineup? No.
    Which lineup would prompt me to consider attending their live gig or purchasing a new studio album? Anderson-Howe-Squire-Wakeman-White. Only.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
  10. vinylphile

    vinylphile Forum Resident

    I could not think of a more ideal set to see them play. You are very lucky!!
     
  11. vinylphile

    vinylphile Forum Resident

    After having heard those songs, I think it was an excellent decision.
     
  12. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    I really don't understand the appeal of these trendy "classic albums in their entirety" tours. I can listen to the album at home. I prefer the eager anticipation of wondering what the band is going to play next. Surely Yes can showcase their storied career more creatively than this. (And I have zero interest in seeing Downes and White trying to replicate the solo pieces of others.)
     
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  13. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

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    I actually like it. Pink Floyd used to only play the current album and the previous album in their entirety in concert and nothing else. Then they played The wall and only The Wall in it's entirety. Genesis did it with The Lamb too.
     
  14. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    It makes more sense when you're talking about "rock operas" like The Wall, The Lamb or Tommy, particularly featuring them right after they've come out, when they're still fresh. Those were actually conceived of more as a whole piece. Most albums aren't structured that way, including most Yes albums.
     
  15. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

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    I think a lot of thought went into the structure of all those classic Yes albums. It was a time when rock music was moving away from two minute singles to album based projects. Maybe it's just familiarity but I find Yes albums to be pretty cohesive and work well as a complete works. I enjoy seeing them played that way.
     
  16. JAG

    JAG Forum Professor with Tenure

    Location:
    Northeast USA

    you are completely WRONG....lets compare apples to apples, 70's classic rock acts....Fleetwood Mac selling out 15000 seats a night without new material at $200 a seat, Rush as I mentioned before but of course you didn't mention they are selling 10000 seats a night at $100 and still playing NEW material, Eric Clapton still plays in front of 10000 a night at $200, Black Sabbath still plays arenas with NEW material

    now I realize you can name bands that are in the same boat as YES but what is common with those bands as opposed to the bands above? THE ORIGINAL CORE MEMBERS...not in the cover bands but are in the bands still filling arenas

    "most" YES fans are NOT supporting this band any more......it is a fact based on ticket sales
     
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  17. JAG

    JAG Forum Professor with Tenure

    Location:
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    if they did all of fragile with Anderson Bruford Wakeman Squire Howe....would be big and fans would come out of the woodwork for it
     
  18. Stereolab

    Stereolab Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose
    Hmm so much cynicism... I've discovered Yes very recently and in the past week have just listened to Fragile and Close to the Edge for the first time. Such ridiculous, utter musical perfection. Point is I wasn't alive when these were released yet they are as brilliant and relevant as anything I grew up on. I only wish I had discovered them sooner.
     
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  19. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

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    Once again, you are talking about bands that are not a fair comparison. Yes had a hit song now and then and was a bit sporadic about the charts, and have had periods of time of being quite obscure to all but hardcore fans. Until Big Generator they didn't enjoy nearly the mass appeal that either Clapton or FM has. And even then it was short lived.
    And lets be realistic, mass appeal driven by airplay is what fills up arena seats, not music appreciation snobbery.
    Clapton and FM are both anomalies in the current music scene, as are the Stones. Yes never had the wide appeal of any of them.
     
  20. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

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    No doubt about it, but I think the same thing applies if they did Big Generator with that lineup. For a different reason. Once again, it is a matter of what you consider to be the classic lineup.
    I am with the Fragile crowd, but that doesn't mean I am oblivious to the fact that the Big Generator/90125 period was the bands most successful from an accounting perspective.
    I think that has to do more with the fact that those acts were far more radio friendly, not so much the style of music. At the time those bands were at their pinacle, they were not considered "soft rock" they were just rock music, rock was rock and not divided up into sub-categories.
    If you look at the bands that are a big draw, it is bands that are either legendary like Cream or Zeplin, or bands who had a LOT of juke box/radio quality songs that got a lot of exposure through having a lot of singles releases.
    Yes was more like ELP, in that they had an album oriented stoner foundation as their fan base early on, and had less appeal than they might have had if they had released a lot of singles.
    I would venture to conjecture that Yes would have stayed relatively obscure if not for Roundabout having been a bit of a fluke in that it made a great single. Finding a good single on a Yes album must have kept record executives and managers up nights.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
  21. Bill Cormier

    Bill Cormier Forum Resident

    Location:
    Malta, New York
    Just got back from the Albany Yes show (at the Egg) and here is a brief rundown.
    (I am doing this from memory so sorry if I missed anything).

    I am a long time Yes fan (since first hearing "Roundabout" upon it`s release) and have seen the band many times over the years.
    This was an extremely intimate show in a small venue and it was a real treat to see them so closely !

    They did indeed play all of "Close to the Edge" and "Fragile", only in the case of "Close to the Edge" they played it in reverse order !
    Chris Squire commented at the conclusion that it was the first time the band played in anywhere.....backwards !
    Perhaps they felt that "Siberian Khatru" was a better show opener. They then did "And You and I", finishing with album set with "Close to the Edge".
    Disorienting for those who know the album but nonetheless enjoyable.

    They next premiered two new songs from the upcoming album, didn`t catch the titles unfortunately. The first was pleasant in slightly folksy way, the second longer song was very good indeed, pop-ish and prog-ish at the same time, good melody and great playing on this one. The crowd really liked it too !

    Next up was The "Fragile" album, in proper order this time. Fantastic !

    After this came a few more choice cuts, ""Your Move/I`ve Seen All Good People", the predictable "Owner of a Lonely Heart" and the final show stopper "Starship Trooper".

    This was the second stop on the new tour and all in all I think they did a great job. The mix took a little while to settle in but they got it after awhile.

    The new singer, Jon Davidson was actually really impressive and really nailed it on most of the songs.

    This really hit the spot for me, if you are hesitant about seeing this lineup, don`t be. They rock !
     
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  22. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

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    You are missing a hell of a lot of great Yes music.
    The Ladder sounds like it could have been the follow up album to Fragile. Magnification sounds like Tormato meets Close To The Edge.
     
  23. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

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    Yes was filling stadiums of over 100,000 seats in 1975-76. Yes was the second best selling live act in the 70s just behind Led Zeppelin. They held the record for the most sold out shows at Madison Square Garden in the 70s.

    Sporadic on the charts?

    "The Yes Album
    was released in the UK on 19 February 1971. It was a commercial and critical success and was the band's breakthrough album, peaking at number 4 in the UK and number 40 in the US. It has been certified Platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America for selling over one million copies.

    Fragile
    was released in the UK on 26 November 1971 followed by its US release on 4 January 1972. It peaked at number 4 on the US Billboard Top LPs chart and number 7 in the UK. "Roundabout" was released as a single in the US with a shortened duration of 3:27, with "Long Distance Runaround" on the B-side. It peaked at number 13 on the Billboard Pop Singles chart in April 1972. In April 1972, Fragile was certified gold by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). The album is certified double platinum by the RIAA for over two million copies sold.

    Close to the Edge was released on 13 September 1972, three months into the band's 1972–73 world tour to promote the record. It was their biggest commercial success; the album peaked at number 3 on the US Billboard Top LPs chart and number 4 in the UK. "And You and I" was split into two tracks and released as a single titled "And You and I (Part I & II)" that peaked at number 42 on the US Hot 100 singles chart. The album is certified Platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America for selling over one million copies.

    Tales from Topographic Oceans was released in the UK on 14 December 1973 during the band's 1973–74 tour of Europe and North America to promote the record. Its US release followed on 9 January 1974. The album was a big commercial success for the band. Following a change in regulations from the British Phonographic Industry for albums to qualify for a Gold disc, it became the first record to reach the certification based on pre-orders orders alone after 75,000 orders were made. It topped the UK album chart for two weeks and peaked at number 6 on the US Billboard Top LPs chart.

    Relayer was released in the UK on 28 November 1974 during their 1974–75 tour of North America and the UK. Its US release followed on 5 December 1974. The album continued the band's commercial success; it peaked at number 4 in the UK and number 5 on the US Billboard Top LPs chart. The closing section of "The Gates of Delirium", titled "Soon", was released as a single in January 1975. The album is certified Gold by the Recording Industry Association of America.

    Going for the One was released on 7 July 1977 and was a commercial success for the band. The album topped the UK Albums Chart for two weeks in August 1977 and peaked at number 8 on the US Billboard 200. The album spawned two singles released in 1977; "Wonderous Stories" was released with "Parallels" as the B-side which peaked at number 7 in the UK singles chart. The second, "Going for the One" with "Awaken Pt. I" on the B-side, reached number 24 on the same chart.
    In October 1978, Circus magazine reported that the album had sold one million copies. It was certified Gold by the Record Industry Association of America and Silver by the British Phonographic Industry.

    Released on 20 September 1978, Tormato peaked at number 8 in the UK and number 10 in the US.

    Yes had pretty wide appeal.
     
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  24. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chernigov, Ukraine
    I know I would have gone abroad to see this.

    It's interesting that some think that Keystudio is the only worthy thing since CTTE and that everything in between is searching for lost mojo. Never heard this opinion before. ))

    I've been relistening 80s and 90s stuff lately. To be honest.. I never hated OYE before - moderately liked, but this time I enjoyed it even more... Can anyone explain - how New State of Mind is less proggy or interesting than "Does It Really Happen"? Or "No Way We Can Loose" worse than "I am a Camera"? And "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 - all good people" doesn't get to me as well. Perhaps, I was groomed well enough by Abbey Road to percept such lyrics without hostility. )))) Those, who hate OYE - can you explain which aspects irritate you? I'm curious.

    As for Drama... man.. it's like... there is this beautiful chicken with white feathers... and suddenly its head is chopped off. He still runs around the yard seemingly competently and looking alive, aimlessly spilling blood with legs (rhythm section) and beautiful feathers (Howe's guitar playing), but it has still lost its head and is doomed... with that said, I would love Drama to come out in the re-release series we are seeing now from SW. Would love to have an instrumental of "Machine Messiah". Then it will be forever salvaged as best as humanely possible.
     
  25. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    This doesn't make much sense to me. Are you saying that you like the music but you just can't bear it without Jon Anderson there? After the increasing cheesiness that he brought to Tormato with tracks like "Circus of Heaven" and "Arriving UFO", I found the relatively no nonsense approach on Drama to be refreshing. With a band like Yes, the music comes first for me and as long as the lyrics/vocal aren't embarrassingly silly, I can generally live with it.
     
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