Listening room...

Okay... we know your equipment, but what you doing for our rooms?

I think room tuning is one of the most important thing to reproduce a good sound in your living room! Anyway I don't like boom boom sounds in my room!

I used ASC tube traps before to avoid standing waves in my very large room. It's a good treatment if you have enuff space... but you should avoid drying out the room. Overkill is dangerous! I also use Harmonix tuning dots on the walls... it improves every listening room!

Stands for the components are also an important factor... but that's another theme!

 

url

tube traps: http://www.tubetrap.com/
harmonix: http://www.combak.net/

 

Count me in.

 

Could you tell me more about these Harmonix tuning dots? What do they do for you?

I've read a review at 6moons but I'm not impressed with that. This link says they cost around £111 each!:

https://id18536.securedata.net/audiomax-ltd.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?products_id=138

Surely not.

 

I am going to invest in some real treatments soon, but what and where is the question. I'll say this, I am going to do it slowly, adding one or two pieces at a time. I know I need to treat the back wall behind my head, which is my major issue based on what I am able to measure. The tube traps are attractive because they work the hardest in the frequency range where I have a hump. What I can’t guess is what they would do to the nulls. I really, really like that half the tube has a reflective barrier, so you can rotate it to tune the amount of high frequency absorption. That is a feature that is unique to that product. The dots? No clue. I feel skeptical, but that only means I can construct no rational, physics based reason they would do anything.

 

Anyone not skeptical of those dots is...better not using the words I'm thinking of. Try sticking a bunch of quarters, or maybe Susan B. Anthony dollar coins on your walls for a test before buying the dots.

 

I understand the mechanism of treatments—the sound frequency is converted into heat. What is going on with these dot deals is a mystery.

 

I have treated my room with bass and corner traps as well as ceiling clouds and FRZ panels, then eq to attain the sound you like.

 

There are a few of these unintuitive room treatments around and I would like to see a satisfactory explanation of their workings as well as some measurements to back that up. The products I find interesting but questionable are:

Harmonic 'dots'.
Leading Edge panels: http://www.kaiser-acoustics.com/en/hifi-equipment/leading-edge/leading-edge.html
Michael Green stuff: http://michaelgreenstuneland.com/rt.html
Stein Harmonizer: http://www.steinmusic.de/EN/products/periphery/h2_harmonizer.html

I've never heard any of them. Reviews seem to be positive but without satisfactory explanations. Surely there must be good reasoning behind them that is better then just saying they employ quantum mechanics (that will shut them up - who can argue with that!) as it says on the Stein site.

I've just used conventional (GIK) products which I like to think I understand.

 

The products I used are from GIK, and Real Traps, the measurements prove that they work..

 

My advice.
1.) Take your time.
2.) invest in a calibrated mic and any associated wires and pre-amp if needed
3.) learn to use EQ Wizard.
4.) take a few measurements to ID problem frequencies.
-- a.) Play those frequencies one at time while walking around the room identifying the problem locations
-- b.) ID your biggest problem and look for a trap that fits the location of that problem.
5.) Buy a trap and place in the problem mode.
6.) Repeat steps 4 and 5 until you are happy with the outcome.
-- a.) don't be afraid to replace (move around) existing traps for a better outcome.

 

Follow up:
If you get stuck, GIK has a great forum and will review your graphs from RoomEQ Wiz and suggest places in your room to focus and issues to research.

I also found them willing to suggest, without getting too descriptive, helpful hints on making your own traps once you get to that point. But you won't be at that point until you read, measure, and study.

 

Thanks for the input. I am actually at number five. I have a large null at the seating position that doesn’t change much with speaker position—65Hz seems to be the heart of it. There is also a peak around 215Hz. Not many traps focus on the 215Hz are, but a few do. Most modeling, like that in REW, shows that treating the back wall helps that peak. So I am left wondering, how does one target a null?

 

Thanks for the input. I am actually at number five. I have a large null at the seating position that doesn’t change much with speaker position—65Hz seems to be the heart of it. There is also a peak around 215Hz. Not many traps focus on the 215Hz are, but a few do. Most modeling, like that in REW, shows that treating the back wall helps that peak. So I am left wondering, how does one target a null?

What helped me with some serious nulls was dual subs, just a thought to maybe consider...

 

There is a null at the halfway length, don't sit there. There is also one at half width , but we need to sit there for symmetry so we can't avoid that one. The answer is usually more trapping in the right spots. Needs to be done with proper testing though as you go , or else...you know...pissing in the wind as they say.

 

All those things make you seem like a crazy nerd. Not a problem if you already are married... Or actually are a nerd.
On the other hand, if you have any plans of having new girlfriends actually SEE this stuff. You are in trouble.

I go for the 'natural' tuning materials. IE: Bookshelves. Framed art. lined heavy drapes, Rugs. They work pretty good. And the room tuning is all hidden in plain sight.

 

All those things Elizabeth will help a little with reflections, possible, but do absolutely nothing for low end ringing in any room. In fact, heavily treated using that stuff you will end up with a heavily unbalanced sound, much shorter decay in the highs than the lows. If its all you can do, its all that you can do. However proper treatment goes way beyond drapes,rugs etc.

Bookshelves do NOT provide diffusion of any kind by the way. You may get a LITTLE scattering, maybe, thats it, they do bugger all. Diffusion is a precisely calculated mathematical device to do what it does. Bookshelves would provide more absorbtion than anything else. Not trying to rain on anyones parade, just info that I think could be useful for someone out there.

 

Can the fill in speaker stands cause a null?

 

Jupiterboy,

"Fill in"...you mean like the sand inside a stand or something?

 

Exactly.

 

No, the sand will not cause a null.

 

So between, say, rice, sand, shot, poly fill, etc.; any resonance between the speaker cabinet and the stand/floor remains the same?

 

Yep pretty much, any of those will do, my preference is sand. All your doing is adding mass/weight to the stand. So that the piston like action of your woofer dosent induce the stand to move back and forth with it causing distortions. Obviously this movement, if you have it, you cannot actually see.

Resonance is going to be more dependant on how your speakers sit on the stand. I use sorbathane for this. Used in the correct size pieces, its good down to very low resonance wise.