Has Yoko ever commented on the unseen 1980 Lennon music videos?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by monkboughtlunch, Jul 3, 2010.

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  1. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_C_videotape

    "1 inch Type C (designated Type C by SMPTE) is a professional reel-to-reel analog recording helical scan videotape format co-developed and introduced by Ampex and Sony in 1976. It became the replacement in the professional video and broadcast television industries for the then-incumbent 2 inch Quadruplex videotape (2 inch Quad for short) open-reel format, due to the smaller size, comparative ease of operation (vs. 2 inch) and slightly higher video quality of 1 inch type C video tape recorder (VTR).

    1 inch Type C is capable of "trick-play" functions such as still, shuttle, and variable-speed playback, including slow motion. 2 inch Quadruplex videotape machines lacked these capabilities, due to the segmented manner in which it recorded video tracks onto themagnetic tape. Also, 1 inch Type C VTRs required much less maintenance (and used less power and space) than did 2 inch machines.

    Despite being a composite video format like U-matic or VHS, 1 inch Type C has very high video quality, approaching the quality of component video formats like Betacam.

    The quality and reliability of 1 inch Type C made it a mainstay in television and video production in television studios for almost 20 years, before being supplanted by more compact videocassette formats like Betacam, DVCAM, D-1, D-2 and DVCPro. 1 inch Type C was also widely used for the mastering of early LaserDisc titles. It was replaced in that role by the digital D-2 videocassette format in the late 1980s."
     
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  2. gswan

    gswan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    It must have only been a day or two after this filming that John had his hair cut.

    In the transcript of the filming John is already talking about soon having different
    hair, my guess is he saw the playback of some of this footage and didn't like his
    look, hence changing into a cap in the middle of filming, he must have been
    self concious about his long hair pulled back tight, strangely John pulledsomething
    similar between the 6-8th of December, having two haircuts within a few days of
    each other.
     
  3. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I love it when people lecture me as to what 1" C was. I'm actually old enough to have used the Ampex 1"A format, the Bosch 1" B format, and the SMPTE 1" C format. The joke in 1978 was the "C" stood for "Compromise," using the best technology between the Ampex A format and the original Sony BVH-1000 format, which recorded the full vertical interval. I think I've used at least six or seven 1" C machines in my time: Ampex's VPR-2B, the VPR-3, the VPR-6 (which was a steaming piece of crap), the Sony BVH-1000A, the BVH-1100, and the BVH-2000, which was a dream. The 2000 was absolutely the best until D1 component came in around 1986-1987 and killed composite analog. (The Bosch B-format was also very good, but it died due to lack of industry acceptance.)

    So yeah... I'm sorta aware of what 1" C is. And I've seen some brilliant-looking 1" C material and some horrendous dog crap 1" C material. It all depends on the camera, the lighting, the number of generations, and a dozen other decisions.

    Don't believe everything you read. Especially on Wikipedia.
     
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  4. DrAftershave

    DrAftershave A Wizard, A True Star

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    My God...the clarity!
     
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  5. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    You know it! You know-a!
     
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  6. nosticker

    nosticker Forum Guy

    Location:
    Ringwood, NJ
    I actually have a VPR-2B, an 80, and a VPR-6. I don't agree that the 6 was a bad machine. Some of the software, like the 4.1, was very good; the 4.3 was buggy and resulted in "end of tape" malfunctions. I used 6's for editing and live to air for decades and had great luck with it. Still use the Sony 2000's, which are mostly excellent, but I preferred the 6's user-friendliness.
    I also like the 3100's, though not everyone agrees with me.

    The VPR-80, on the other hand...eek. And the Sony 1100....also eek.

    I'll also go as far to say that 1" is generally sharper than Beta SP. That Dolby C sound on Ch. 1 and 2 sux balls. I know that Beta SP can be used as a component format, but I have yet to ever encounter such a setup.

    Anyway, the Lennon video was probably shot on a VPR-20 or the Sony equivalent, the model number escapes me now.

    Dan
     
  7. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I had a master tape destroyed by a VPR-6. Not a fan. The VPR-80 was a toy, like the "home version" of 1-inch.

    The portable Sony was the BVH-500 -- very cool, but expensive and maintenance-intensive:
    [​IMG]

    Betacam killed 1" for portable shooting, circa 1982-1983 or so. BTW, I forgot I did a ton of mastering on the Sony BVH-2800, the 1" machine with 4 channels of digital audio. Very nice machine, though you sacrificed recording the vertical interval.
     
  8. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    To my eyes, just to my eyes having seen no other information about it ever anywhere, some of it was Polavision and appeared in those videos to be shot right off a Polavision player screen. (I note this because apparently in the entire history of this forum, the word "Polavision" has appeared just once in one thread in an ode to dead formats.)
     
  9. helter

    helter Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    Yes quoting someone quoting John
    John said he "looked like a "f***ing bird"
    We still have no proof the 1st reel of tape still exists.
     
  10. Chief

    Chief Over 12,000 Served

    That entire recording was hilarious, what with John's comments like that, and his lyric changes.
     
  11. ky658

    ky658 Senior Member

    Location:
    Ft Myers, Florida
    I've used the VPR-3, VPR-80 and VPR2B, for the early 80's they were halfway decent machines. The Lennon footage posted above looks like it was shot on a lesser quality 1" machine and is definitely NOT 1st or 2nd generation, more like 4th or 5th...
     
  12. mindgames

    mindgames Forum Resident

    Location:
    -
    Just for everyone's information regarding the quality of the survived 5+ minute tape: the pictures above are blow-ups of scans from a pixelated booklet containing frames of the footage.
     
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  13. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks mindgames! Does the five+ minutes of John only consist of the insert shots of John -- and was this on the the same "reel 2" as Yoko's footage? Have you concluded that "reel 1" has not survived?
     
  14. beatlematt

    beatlematt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gadsden, Alabama
    Oh how the ghosts of youth flit by from here to there! Don't blink! You might miss it! We strain our eyes and marvel at the slight before us. Peering into the void hoping to see more. Did I imagine it? The excitement of the discovery soon dissolves, as I dreadfully realize that these are the saddest shadows of all.
     
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  15. nosticker

    nosticker Forum Guy

    Location:
    Ringwood, NJ
    I had a BVH-2000 completely throw tape, too, but that doesn't mean that I think it's overall a bad machine. The format that has f-ed me the most, by a large margin, has been Digi Beta. Sony must have really been churning them out in the mid-to-late 90's, because they were trash. The ones at the house I worked at had defective carriages, head failure at 16oo hours, and a few A500's couldn't even play back SP tapes without flagging. The joke was "That's 2 things they can't do, analog and digital". They are much better today!

    Getting slightly back on topic, those screenshots could have been played back on a machine with noisy heads or low RF coming off the tape. Just a guess. The problem is when material gets dubbed from format to format; one gets the worst of all of them!



    Dam
     
  16. gswan

    gswan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Here is a random thought,

    With news of the 1972 'The long and winding road' movie surfacing at the same as the Double Fantasy footage, i can't help
    but wonder if TLAWR video was actually Johns copy that may have been stolen at the same time as the 1980
    footage?. John was very aware of TLAWR project, he discussed it during his 1974 Today show interview, i don't
    think it's a stretch that John would have been given a review copy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
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  17. helter

    helter Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    It deserves more credit than it's received but Robert Rosen's book on Lennon states that Seaman had John's stuff piled in boxes to the ceiling of his apartment so that says a lot to me about what may have happened ..........
     
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  18. Les Nougat

    Les Nougat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Hi Greg,

    What's this about The Long and Winding Road" doco leaking? I haven't heard anything about this - I'm excited. I'm a bit pessimistic about the Double Fantasy footage though - those screen shots look like what is described about the existing tape - breakaway shots of John's guitar and the shots of John's face are from below which is consistent with what is described about the second tape. I hope I'm wrong.
     
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  19. gswan

    gswan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Hi,

    That's as much as i know, it hasn't surfaced into general fandom yet, but it's coming.

    For now i'd be happy just to have a cut away of Johns shoe if it was from the Double
    Fantasy film shoot, whether the other tape with multiple performances ever appears is anyones guess.
     
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  20. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Doh, what a horrible format! If you read biographies of the great Dr. Edmund Land, you'll see that he believed Polavision would be the greatest creation of his life. Sadly, he was wrong, and that started Polaroid on the road to its long collapse and eventually ended his career at the company he started.
    [​IMG]
    If they just could've come out with Polavision in like 1969 or 1970, it might've actually worked. But it was all over with by 1977. I can remember when Sears was blowing them out for $150 or something in 1978-1979. I wound up getting Richard Carpenter's old Polavision system about 20 years ago, but gradually lost all the pieces after various moves. He kept the movies, which could be spliced onto normal Super 8mm film reels, and they're part of his archive.

    I have no doubt that McCartney, Lennon, and many rock stars of the late 1970s bought Polavision (or were given systems by Polaroid) just for promotional use. An old friend of mine who knew Elliot Mintz, who was Yoko's spokesman for about 20 years, and Mintz told him that the Lennons had piles of electronics and photography equipment that were given to them for free by various manufacturers. He also told me that John -- while a brilliant artist -- was a real klutz at electronics and had a hard time operating anything mechanical. Great guitarist, very bright man, but not technical at all.
     
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  21. Nothing big to report...& sorry for the excitement that this isn't... after the Lennon screen saver shot revolution here this last August I'm sure that there's a few of us, who when we see this thread show up...come here holding our breath & hoping for the best involving some kind of break through & big news...

    I just wanted to follow up in regards to the Retrovision Mayfair glasses (like the various pairs of that style Lennon wore in 1980). They are amazing!!!!! The only thing I'll say ) is that the way they are sent to her, they are bent/curved a bit. I've spoken to Gwyn the owner/designer about this- (BTW she is a truly wonderful person). I took them to be straightened out & the optometrist said that's how glasses with UV protection are usually shaped. The thing is it's not how Ray-Ban Wayfarers are shaped, nor how Lennon's were either apparently. I have a few pairs of the "Double Fantasy" model of official John Lennon glasses, patterned after the Hakusan Mayfair, & they are, like Wayfarers, straight across (though slightly tilted inwards...albeit less of a tilt than Wayfarers). After they were straightened I put them up against my old official ones (Yoko loaned the originals to the John Lennon Collection manufacturers years ago, for them to be patterned after) & they are pretty much a perfect match. And I mean way over 95%, more like 99+%. Incredible job!! But for me, they really need to be straightened & have that curve taken out, for the appearance to be completely correct.

    They now offer their Mayfair glasses, in either Honey-Orange, or Clear frames (both are fantastic!!!), & you can get them with either Brown, or Blue sunglass lenses in them. Early next year they are planning on putting out the final of the three colors Lennon had, the Caramel-Yellow/Gold. The official John Lennon Collection glasses had the correct shape, but, while quite expensive, they used a cheaper material for the glasses, & stuff that wasn't accurate. Retrovision has painstakingly recreated those Mayfair glasses to incredible results. All one needs to do, is to take them to an optical store & have the natural curve in them straightened out & then they go up a full notch in appearance & are spot on all the way.

    Here is their website...
    http://retrovisioneyewear.com/

    And their ultra groovy "Hall Of Frame" with lots of great shots of Lennon in the Mayfairs from 1980, & of their glasses as well...
    http://retrovisioneyewear.com/index.php?route=information/hallofframe
     
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  22. mc7t

    mc7t Forum Resident

  23. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    Thanks for posting.

    Here is the part for anyone interested:

    ''There is a story that Levine once owned a video even more sought after than the Don't Try So Hard video. He apparently owned the video that John Lennon filmed for (Just Like) Starting Over. Lennon was thought to have destroyed the video because he didn't like the way he looked in it. But someone from within The Hit Factory where Lennon filmed the video made a copy and somehow it ended up in Levine's possession. I know for a fact a man called Elliot Mintz - who works for Yoko Ono was dispatched to meet Levine and retrieve the video, which he managed to do successfully. ''
     
  24. mc7t: Would it be possible for you to inquire to "Chrystalhead" as to any other details that he might know about the Lennon tape? Such as (& anyone else feel free to toss in other potential inquiries here too!!)- What year did Elliot Mintz get the tape back? Do they know if any other copies were distributed elsewhere & if they are still out there? Did the estate keep the copy they retrieved? And anything else that you can think of to check in about... Thanks so much. This is truly groundbreaking info & then some!!

    For all concerned here, I'd venture that this is the biggest piece of news we've had on this in ages, & maybe even the most hopeful news, well, possibly ever. Actual names named, & Elliot Mintz definitelywould have been the go to from the Lennon-Ono camp to retrieve this. If it was in fact retrieved, that that would most certainly explain how the small snippet of video of Yoko from that day that showed up in a documentary & recent still clip pic of John has surfaced (here this last August- which is the other biggest break/piece of evidence of continued existence, since the Ono video info from back at the start of this thread)...because the video still does exist & the estate has a copy. I'm wondering if there was more than one copy made & if they got into more than one set of hands? I'm guessing the party most likely to know that would be Fred Seaman... speaking of which anyone know whatever became of him?

    And here's the glorious text of the exchange that was recently recovered by "mc7t"!!:
    ''There is a story that Levine once owned a video even more sought after than the Don't Try So Hard video. He apparently owned the video that John Lennon filmed for (Just Like) Starting Over. Lennon was thought to have destroyed the video because he didn't like the way he looked in it. But someone from within The Hit Factory where Lennon filmed the video made a copy and somehow it ended up in Levine's possession. I know for a fact a man called Elliot Mintz - who works for Yoko Ono was dispatched to meet Levine and retrieve the video, which he managed to do successfully. ''

    Just for fun...here's the old video documentary footage of Yoko, from that filming...
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014
  25. elvissinatra

    elvissinatra Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan
    I would imagine that this Ian Levine made a copy before he turned the original over to Mintz, right? Maybe someone can track him down...

    My Husband has just told me that within the Documentary/Film Making community we belong to - its an open secret that a man called Ian Levine OWNS a copy of the [Queen "Don't Try So Hard"] video. My husband doesn't know any of the details but he is quite sure of the fact. Ian Levine is an English DJ and is a collector of rare videos/footage etc.
     
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