Bob Dylan's Basement Tapes - where we're at currently (Part 2)...

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by hodgo, Aug 29, 2014.

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  1. And indeed I think the documentarian/preservationist perspective is what we're going to get here, for better or for worse. And given that alternative versus any possibility of "Calbi-izing" them, I'd say that's probably for the better.
     
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  2. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    People have been arguing for decades about how to "remaster" old 78 rpm recordings, and how much noise needs to be removed from them. The Robert Johnson recordings from the 1930s have been re-released many times over the years, but have only recently been fully "restored" to their original glory. I do think we want the Basement Tapes in their natural state, even if that means letting some of the tape hiss and distortion remain. If most of the newly remixed songs sound as good as the samples I've heard so far, I believe we're going to come out OK here.

    Sometimes I think that the audio quality of the official 1975 Basement Tapes release was purposely degraded, so that it would uniformly sound like a basement tape. Another archival release, Elvis Presley's Sun Sessions LP, which came out a year later, was similarly tampered with by RCA, but for a different purpose, in an effort to update the "dry" and thinner sound of the original Sun masters. (Thankfully, Elvis' early work has now been properly "restored.")

    For the new Dylan release, I hope the engineers go the route that Steve Hoffman took with the Buddy Holly archival material, using 1st-generation, original tapes wherever possible to remaster the jumble of different quality reels and acetates into an album like Buddy Holly: For The First Time Anywhere. Hopefully, the music will then be presented as a collection of natural, listenable performances, like the tracks on one of Steve's very best works, Buddy Holly: From The Original Master Tapes.
     
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  3. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
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    I tried to do it court reporter style, phonetically, but I'm sure someone could do a better job.
     
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  4. Steve E.

    Steve E. Doc Wurly and Chief Lathe Troll

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    I hear:
    From THE MOUNTAINS OF VIRGINIA was A MILE o' MISSION
    Running from here to Mexico

    ..
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
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  5. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    This the first music release that I can recall waiting with bated breath just for the track timings to be announced.
     
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  6. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    Not necessarily better, but you've build a tremendous foundation for fresh ears to build upon.
     
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  7. Steve E.

    Steve E. Doc Wurly and Chief Lathe Troll

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    I really hope they leave many of the untrimmed beginnings and ends. There is personality in the medium, in the presence imposed by the machines, electronics and tape capturing the whole thing.

    For example: Assuming that the tape reel runs out on the original "Bourbon Street," (and not just on a copy that made it to boots) I _want_ to hear the song disappear into a bunch of magnetic flakes. "Here's they come now-ah-uh-h~h~h~w" I'll be sad if it just fades out to protect us from this technological tragedy.
     
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  8. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
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    Alright, I hear it -- "from here to Mexico." Thanks.
     
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  9. subtr

    subtr Forum Resident

    Which reminds me...to hear all these in (I presume) the correct pitch and tapespeed will be great! I think most are fine on the boots, but there's a few where they could go one way or the other...I'm curious!
     
  10. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Does anyone know anything about the whereabouts of the original tape recorder(s) used by Garth back in '67? I believe it would be helpful to have access to those particular machines when determining the proper pitch, speed, etc. of the original tapes.
     
  11. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    From GetRhythm's original post:
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/bob-dylans-basement-tapes-where-were-at-currently.349311/
    Using a 2-channel portable Ampex 602 tape recorder, tracks were recorded at either 3-3/4 or 7-1/2 ips (15 ips not being available) - which would have allowed 20-40 minutes of recording time per tape depending on speed utilized. Most tracks were recorded in a panned stereo format with all sources routed to either the left or right channel, though there is often leakage between channels on the account of the 'loose mic'ing' system deployed.


     
  12. subtr

    subtr Forum Resident

    Some new info and another picture here. Filming for Eat The Document, apparently.. I'm not so sure, but maybe?

    http://www.daysofthecrazy-wild.com/...omplete-basement-tapes-unreleased-track-list/

    Some of the info might be off, but it does suggest that Bourbon St has an additional four minutes to it!

    "“‘900 miles’ is beautiful and not the fragment that you think it is,’ said a source who has heard the Complete Basement Tapes set. “It’s a fully realized version.”"
     
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  13. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    Great news about "900 Miles." I'm always eager to hear more Basement Tapes material, but not sure more "Bourbon St" was what I had in mind!
     
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  14. subtr

    subtr Forum Resident

    Couldn't agree more! However...this might be great. At LEAST one track is longer than what we have...I wonder if we could assemble the existing material and see how long each disc is (or the nearest to complete). If we have all the tracks already from one, but it runs really short, that could be a nice indicator. I hope that makes sense - I haven't formulated my thoughts at all.
     
  15. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    From the article:
    The Red Room tracks: “Jelly Bean,” “Any Time,” “Hallelujah, I’ve Just Been Moved,” “My Buckets got a Hole In It,” “That’s The Breaks,” “Down By The Station,” “Edge Of the Ocean,” “Two Dollars and 99 Cents,” “Northern Claim,” Love is Only Mine,” “Pretty Mary,” “Mr. Blue” and “Roll On Train.”

    So 3 of these earliest Basements were covers, and the rest were original songs...wonder how long Dylan had been sitting on these? Could they date from Blonde on Blonde? So many possibilities here...

    Thanks a lot for posting this news.


     
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  16. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident

    Though presumably that one person IS happy with the collection. And I only have to please one person (and 'ramshackleness' will indeed be a key characteristic of any compilations I extract, or what's the point?)

    I take your point about appreciating the tapes as an entity (but Moby Dick isn't the right analogy, in my opinion - this is more like Songs of Innocence and Experience or The Tower), but realistically I'm only going to listen to all six discs in their entirety as a unit once or twice. My life doesn't come with eight-hour stretches of downtime, so if I'm to listen to this music with any regularity, it will have to be in smaller units.
     
  17. Moth

    Moth fluttering by

    Location:
    UCI
    That's great news. It makes it seem like the rest of the fragments scattered throughout the bootlegs have a chance of showing up in full. It seems like they're really doing a wonderful job on this set.

    :drool:
     
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  18. Bennyboy

    Bennyboy Forum Resident

    For those of you waiting for Bobot, a time killer:

    The Basement Tapes Revisited (Live at Victoriatea…:
     
  19. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    Sadly, it might mean the opposite, at least if this blog is credible (don't doubt it, but I don't know the basis for his insider credentials). After all, his list, which purports to include "a complete list of previously unreleased tracks" from a confidential source specifically includes "900 Miles" and "Bourbon St." Which implies to me that if it's not on the list, it's not a restored fragment.

    http://www.daysofthecrazy-wild.com/...omplete-basement-tapes-unreleased-track-list/

    According to my source, this is the complete list of previously unreleased tracks with asterisks marking the “Red Room” recordings:

    1. Jelly Bean *
    2. Any Time*
    3. Hallelujah, I’ve Just Been Moved (trad, arr by Bob Dylan)*
    4. My Buckets got a Hole In It (Clarence Williams)*
    5. That’s The Breaks*
    6. Down By the Station*
    7. Edge of the Ocean *
    8. Two Dollars and 99 Cents*
    9. Northern Claim*
    10. Love is Only Mine*
    11. Pretty Mary*
    12. Mr. Blue (Dewayne Blackwell)*
    13. Roll On Train*
    14. Will the Circle Be Unbroken
    15. She’s On My Mind Again
    16. I Shall be Released Take 1
    17. Blowin’ in the Wind
    18. One Too Many Mornings
    19. A Satisfied Mind (Joe Hayes and Jack Rhodes)
    20. It Ain’t Me Babe
    21. If I Were a Carpenter (Tim Hardin)
    22. Ain’t No More Cain (Take 1) (Trad. Arr. By Bob Dylan)
    23. Ain’t No More Cain (Take 2) (Trad. Arr by Bob Dylan)
    24. My Woman She’s A-Leavin’
    25. Mary Lou, I love you Too
    26. Dress it Up, Better Have it All
    27. What’s It Gonna Be When It Comes Up
    28. 900 Miles From My Home
    29. Wild Wolf
    30. Bourbon Street (an additional 4 minutes added to the track that has not been circulated).


     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
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  20. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    If so, it makes the inclusion of "It's Alright" on the 2CD set outright baffling.
     
  21. Moth

    Moth fluttering by

    Location:
    UCI
    I can see how you would get that impression, but that list seems a little strange to me. It says it's a list of all the unreleased tracks, yet it doesn't include "Big Dog" (which happens to be a fragment, so maybe you're right) which we know hasn't been released. If it is really is a list of 'complete songs', then it's some rather odd wording.
     
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  22. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Looks like you nailed down the 30 "unheard" tracks here. Thanks.
     
  23. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    You're totally right that the author seems to have mistakenly used the word "unreleased" when he plainly must have meant "uncirculated."
     
  24. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Big Dog will probably fall into the same category as Her Majesty on Abbey Road, just a fragment listed as a separate track.
     
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  25. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    From the Rolling Stone article:
    "...138 tracks on six CDs, including 30 tracks that even fanatical Dylan fans never knew existed."

    That means "uncirculated" to me.
     
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