Bob Dylan - "Band of the Hand (It's Hell Time, Man!)"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by RayS, Feb 20, 2015.

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  1. Nightswimmer

    Nightswimmer Forum Resident

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    Oh no, it is not vague, but it is indeed overly simplistic. And it has a hollow sound to it as if Dylan was just going through some convenient clichés.

    Musically, I think the mid-1980s were a bad time for most 60s artists. They never could figure out how to stay true to their style and sound contemporary. There is much going on in this song that does need to be there.
     
  2. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

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    We'll certainly have to disagree on the content ringing hollow. If anything, this song (and "Groom's") foreshadow "Things Have Changed", "Ain't Talkin'" and his many other bleak commentaries on the modern world. I really get the impression that he meant what he was singing.
     
  3. Nightswimmer

    Nightswimmer Forum Resident

    Location:
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    That's possible but in my opinion it took him five to ten years (and maybe even longer) to express his political opinion in a worthwile lyrical fashion. It is no coincidence that Dylan thought that he was finished in the 1980s. He just could not write meaningful songs any longer. I think that all the songs that you have mentioned are much better than the one that you dedicated this thread to.
     
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  4. Shem the Penman

    Shem the Penman Forum Resident

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    I'd actually agree with this. Not to disregard "Band" and I appreciate RayS for posting it but I just hear a more artistic sort of mystery in the lyrics of "Things Have Changed." I don't think "Band In The Hand" is incoherent but that might be the problem - it's just sloganeering in simple rhymes. "Things" is more personal, esoteric - it feels like a living world, and much like "Dignity" or "Mississippi" I hear new reverberations every time I listen.
     
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  5. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

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    Sorry, forgot that your opinion supercedes all others.
     
  6. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
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    "Things Have Changed" is certainly a high bar for comparison for ANY song. They are unquestionably two different types of songs. Another song that comes to my mind when thinking of "Band of the Hand", oddly enough, is "When the Ship Comes In". There's a similar theme ("we're taking over from the corrupt and unjust, if not today, then soon"), but approached from very different directions.
     
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  7. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Hmm. I get the opposite impression. It seems to me someone probably gave Dylan a cursory summary of the movie's plot, and he wrote the song to order. The lyrics seem to be little more than a plot summary, slightly filtered through Dylan's apocalyptic sensibilities, and with a heavy dose of the same macho posturing that was in the film itself (for those who haven't seen it, the film was essentially a blend of The A-Team, Miami Vice, and The Dirty Dozen). There doesn't seem to be anything particularly profound or personal in the lyrics to me.

    It's true that the song is not as overtly 80s as some others he did, but the bombastic, ham-fisted 80s drumming is something that I quite dislike.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
  8. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
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    You seem to have a low tolerance for disagreement. That must make discussions of opinion quite difficult.
     
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  9. God awful song, the worst lyrics ever.
     
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  10. Shem the Penman

    Shem the Penman Forum Resident

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    Well, we can't really have it both ways though, claiming on the one hand that "Kid" 'highlights his moral center' and then sweeping aside any further discussion of his 'morals.' No of course no one is judging the man himself but my point was that "Clean Cut Kid" smacks of really lazy songwriting to me. On the other hand, I listen to his cover of "Two Soldiers" and I get chills every time. Similar subjects, far different approaches to lyricism & performance. My point was not about Bob's own morality but that his music in the 80s often strikes me as simplistic and lacking in that je ne sais quoi that I appreciate & find so inspiring.
     
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  11. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
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    I disagree with your opinion, but you're welcome to it. Any random songwriter could have gone 100 different ways to match a song to the film plot - this song reeks of Dylan and his often black and white view of the world. This song, unique as it is ("vigilante gospel"), is a logical progression of what came before and precursor to what follows later in Dylan's songwriting. As I mentioned in my other posts, it recalls themes in "Masters of War", "When The Ship Comes In" and "Seven Curses" - revenge against oppressors, the unjust, and those who take advantage of the innocent. It also ties into his "End Times" songs of the Gospel period very neatly. I don't hear a song slapped together to fulfill a commitment (the only thing I hear in that regard is the title of film being shoehorned into the song lyric), I hear a man angry enough to suggest that drug dealers deserve death and perhaps vigilantism isn't such a bad idea. I don't agree with the point of view, but I sure enjoy hearing it expressed passionately.
     
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  12. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

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    Ever? Wow. That's saying a lot.
     
  13. Brian_Svoboda

    Brian_Svoboda Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    I'm with Ray on this one. This song came at a moment when Dylan was on the upswing. "Infidels" and "Empire Burlesque" had drawn largely good reviews and some controversy. "Biograph" was getting raves as the first major boxed set. Rolling Stone had rhapsodized over the unreleased "New Danville Girl." Dylan had delivered a weird set at Live Aid, and a very strong one with the Heartbreakers at Farm Aid, and went on a well-received tour with the Heartbreakers. In the middle of all that, this song was a surprise - kind of like the Letterman performance with the Cruzados. Very hard hitting. The comparison with "Groom" is quite apt. I think there's something just a little bit "pat" about the song's lyrics that keep it from being truly great. But it is very strong and a high point from that era. I'm glad the song's available in 44.1 on Pono, and I wouldn't mind a "Telltale Signs" from '83-86.
     
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  14. Shem the Penman

    Shem the Penman Forum Resident

    Location:
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    Very true and some of his gospel stuff has a similar vibe as well. I love that gospel period, I find myself returning again and again to some of those shows. Maybe I would like "Band Of The Hand" more if it were only available on some audience recording from '79.:shrug:
     
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  15. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
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    Not every post is an invitation to a debate.
     
  16. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

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    Any excuse to post this. :)

     
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  17. Well, I would have put that another way now.
     
  18. avant-gardener

    avant-gardener Active Member

    Location:
    Maine, USA
    I see what you're saying there. "Clean Cut Kid" is kind of like an 80's "John Brown," to me, and it says a lot as a song. It's one of a few songs that I can actually listen to from "Empire Burlesque." If Bob would have made "Empire Burlesque" more natural sounding overall, like the alternate "When The Night Comes Falling From The Sky," as he recorded it with Springsteen's band, on "BS1-3," now that would have been interesting.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
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  19. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Better sound quality on a 12" even at 33.3 speed than a 7" 45. MCA knew some collectors would want that higher SQ for a rare Dylan track. Often it's the radio promo that gets the 12" pressing and stock copies are the 7" like the Springsteen "River" b-sides which got the promo only 12" treatment.
     
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  20. avant-gardener

    avant-gardener Active Member

    Location:
    Maine, USA
    That makes sense.
     
  21. avant-gardener

    avant-gardener Active Member

    Location:
    Maine, USA
    Here it is...

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Those are both ideas that are key points in the film itself, which is what makes me suspect they are not necessarily Dylan's own views so much as his summary/exposition of the film, written to order. Unless one wants to posit that the reason he accepted this particular soundtrack assignment is because the film closely mirrored his own worldview. Which is possible I guess, but I'm kind of skeptical. The film takes a very heavy-handed and simpleminded approach to this topic.

    I guess another thing too is that I don't think Dylan's lyrical handling of this topic is exceptional or particularly insightful. He's dealt with these issues in far more interesting and thoughtful ways in other songs. It is interesting to me that there are folks who can see something of value in this song, since my reaction is so far the opposite.
     
  23. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I disagree. If one posts an opinion on a discussion forum, one is implicitly inviting discussion, which can encompass both agreement and dissent. I certainly doubt you post your opinions with the goal of receiving no response to them, and it's not realistic to expect only assent.
     
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  24. streetlegal

    streetlegal Forum Resident

    Clean Cut Kid doesn't contain "lazy" lyrics as someone above suggested--they are actually fairly good, and above average for most song writers; but it does contain lazy ideas (and, for that matter, music, horribly horribly produced) That said, much of the lyrics on Empire Burlesque are pretty lazy and cliched, by anyone's standards.

    Back to the song in question. I'll be honest. As a huge Dylan fan, I don't really know what to make of it. It has some fire in its belly--better than most of that period--but the vocal is typical of querulous mid '80's Dylan and the song, well, I suppose it has some merit as an apocalyptic chant.
     
  25. Nightswimmer

    Nightswimmer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    I have not seen the movie, but your explanation makes sense.
     
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