Audio Technica At-LP120 Anti-Skate problems

I'm very curious what you will find opening it up. I have the same experience with the anti skating, and tried setting the left part of the TT higher to compensate. This worked a little bit and the needle was tracking with more stability. I put my TT back on the leveled position though, as I think this is not the right way to adjust anti-skating. I don't have any problems with sound quality though, the only reason for me to pursue this is to prevent skipping (which it does quite easily with AS set to factory 2).

Concluding my forum search this night it seems that the outward force of the anti-skating spring is just insufficient to make it stand still on a blank vinyl with VTF >1. Below 1 gram VTF it is possible to make it stand still and even make it skate outwards. I have read about a tweak cutting the spring to increase the operating range of the anti-skating spring (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=335192) but as I have zero experience in taking apart TT's and I do not want to trash mine, I'm not very willing to just try this out.

 

One more time with feeling - it shouldn't be standing still. You are etching the blank vinyl, rather than playing a groove. Totally NOT appropriate for anti-skating calibration.

 

I will comment on the anti-skate spring in a moment... I'd like to comment further on your observation of the deflected cantilever. As you have indicated, your anti-skate is not working properly.

Since we can see that cantilever lean is abnormal, I'd like to relate that for a moment to anti-skate settings. The best method of setting the anti-skate is by observation of the cantilever, that it is not deflecting left or right during play (easy to see) I realize this may be an unpopular method of setting anti-skate, but it works every time, and the very best method in my opinion. Most audiophiles trust their turntable anti-skate scale, and just set the anti-skate to the tracking force (ie 1.5 grams/ anti-skate 1.5) This is very flawed, since different styli require different anti-skate settings, plus, the fact that cantilever lengths vary also, which adds more variables to anti-skate compensation.

The blank vinyl test, or a CD can get you roughly near optimum, however the drag of actual play in the groove causes more skating force, therefore more anti-skate compensation needed, especially during heavily modulated passages. The loudest passages near the label are the most critical areas to get the anti-skate setting just right.

The centering of the cantilever is critical to stylus alignment in the groove. If the anti-skate is wrong, then the cantilever will deflect, sometimes ever so slightly, then all the fuss of aligning the cartridge, overhang, and offset is completely thrown out the window. Never blindly trust the TT anti-skate scale, nor blindly trust setting it exactly to the tracking force. And to repeat for emphasis, incorrect anti-skate force will cause the cantilever to deflect left or right, and completely misaligns the stylus to the groove (ignoring unbalanced forces to the groove walls and potential mistracking)

Back to your specific problem:
I think your TT has a tired anti-skate spring, or it may be stretched or damaged in some way. Try having a look at it, since there may be obvious physical damage. I do not advise setting it at 7, and just live with it. It needs to be fixed. That may be ok for now, but not for repeated play since your stylus and vinyl may wear prematurely. Prolonged use with deflection of the cantilever will result in fatigue to the cartridge suspension, and a permanent lean of the cantilever.

I do repair and restore turntables, but not familiar with the anti-skate mechanism of your model. I will try to find and download a service manual and have a look at it.

 

I see that yours is a USB table with preamp built in, and one of the better USB TT's on the market. There is no downloadable service manual available online. Your turntable needs to be serviced. Parts are probably not available outside of factory authorized service for your model. My suggestion is to take it back to where you bought it for store credit or exchange. I was assuming you had a vintage TT, probably would do better with one, and a separate USB converter. Your vinyl archives will sound better, and after all the digital copies are to be enjoyed for years to come.

 

I actually let it sit for a couple of days, with the same exact settings and everything, and now it is sitting perfectly on the outside of the cd on 7 (which I think is about where the middle of an LP would be). I don't know what happened or if the spring just got used to that setting but it's just sitting there. After I get back from walmart i'm gonna see how it looks in the groove before I decide to return it or whatnot.

 

It didn't look right in the groove. I'm trying to take apart the turntable now, to try to replace the spring or whatnot. Where should the anti skate mechanism be? I took off the platter and unscrewed the plate underneath but there are two wires that prevent me from taking it totally off. Should the mechanism be under this plate or somewhere else?

 

My first thought is to just get rid of that turntable for a better made audiophile table. Although your Audio Technica is one of the better usb models, it still does not compare to the quality of a vintage audiophile turntable, at about the same cost you paid for the new one. The new usb TT's have light platters, sloppy bearings, inferior tone arms, and not made to last. The sound will be ok, but again no comparison to a good vintage TT.

The antiskate spring is usually under the tone arm pivot, and next to the anti-skate knob. There are different anti skate designs, and impossible to know without seeing it. Some operate from a cam, others a sliding metal tang. The spring may be distorted out of shape, maybe installed wrong.

Most Japanese come apart by separation of the base, others a bottom cover. Removal of the platter is necessary since you must flip the TT over to separate the base halves.

I do not recommend an attempt to repair unless you're prepared to replace it. (doesn't it need to be replaced anyway?) The anti-skate spring is fine wire, can easily be damaged, or lost, as they can pop off and fly across the room when taking them apart. This can be frustration in progress. But if you are successful, you'll have the personal satisfaction of fixing it yourself, and that's always nice.

 

I think I've already had it too long to return it now, and I can't afford a better turntable right now. The sound is good enough for me, but I want to make sure it is in good working order. I'll try removing the base tomorrow like you said. If I can fix the anti skate, I'll be satisfied.

 

Please search the forum and the internet for AT-LP 120 anti skate. I wish I could remember exactly where I saw it, but I remember seeing a thread about how someone repaired his unit's anti skate. Although repaired isn't quite the right word. As I mentioned before in this thread, the anti skate on this unit is notoriously bad, almost as if they don't bother hooking it up.

 

I just searched the vinyl engine archives and found 4 separate anti-skate complaints for this TT in 5 minutes! Whoa! All of the issues were the same, set the anti-skate to 7, and the arm still wants to swing to the center of the record. One commenter discovered the tone arm wires in back of the arm pivot (or under the pivot) do not have enough length, or not enough loop, and that they are heavier gauge than the typical tone arm wire. The wires exert a radial force on the arm that counters the anti-skate mechanism. In other words, the wires are the problem ..or.. part of the problem. This person re-positioned the wires to lessen their pull on the arm, and was partially successful. The fix is to rewire the arm with smaller gauge wire, and allow a nice, long loop where it connects to the main shielded wire in the base. The anti-skate spring is said to be weak as well, not worth all the trouble. Ugh, perhaps the spring could be stretched or tweaked to exert more force. However, in my opinion, this TT needs to be thrown under a Mack Truck!

 

I don't feel like fooling with any wires. I think I'll just try to find a stronger spring or stretch this spring.

 

Opened it up and found the mechanism, going to work on it later. I'll post later if I have any luck.

 

Try to see how easily the arm will move without the spring, if the problem in reality is the cable that is too stiff. These types of springs are often constant force types, not so much to do about them.

 

Ok, I'll see what happens. Thanks for the help so far everybody

 

Well, after breaking my at-lp120, my grandpa gave me a fully functional pioneer pl-630....

 

I also have an AT-LP120 USB TT and have discovered the same anti-skating issue, that is little effect with maximum setting at 7. I use a 12" vinyl record with no grooves, and the adjustment makes little difference. I am surprised that you are seeing the cantilever leaning, though. I have an older Empire Troubador TT without anti-skating provision. It works very well with a Shure V15 type II cartridge that has very high compliance and that exhibits no visible "leaning" of the cantilever. I'm thinking of taking bottom of the AT-LP120 apart and trying to see what's going on in there. (You broke your AT- LP120?).

 

Yeah, but I was going to get rid of it anyway because my grandpa gave me a Pioneer the day I tried to fix the Audio Technica. I tried to fix the spring but ended up breaking it in the process. It's not a big deal though, because the Pioneer is a much better turntable.

 

This is not a bad TT. I have the earlier version, the non USB model. You can remove the built in preamp for better results.
check out this video and read the user comments.

 

The problem is Danny broke the anti-skate spring when he tried to fix it, and he's now received what he considers a better turntable anyway.

I've gotten a lot of great use out of my AT-LP120, but then I never had the cantilever problem Danny observed on his.

 

Thanks, guys. I knew this TT had limitations, but overall, I'm happy with it. I'm using the built-in preamp for now. It actually sounds very good as-is, with the AT95E cartridge and I'm a critical listener with good equipment. I tried setting the tracking force at zero, letting the arm float and turning the A/S adjustment. There is a slight outward movement at setting 7.

 

I just spoke to an Audio Technica service rep and they're statement regarding the anti-skating adjustment: "it is what it is", meaning they are not supporting any issues regarding it.

 

It's not a bad turntable. I just wish they would fix a few problems with it, even if that means upping the price a little bit.

 

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I don't believe that cart will track like the V did. I've owned them all as well as the Shure records, even the white jacket ones.

 

I have the same turntable, among many others, and I'm happy with it, even taking into account its limitations. The easiest way though to get rid of the anti-skate problem is getting rid of the stock carts that come with the turntable. I find the anti-skate works fine if carts are used that feel happy with only 1.5 grams maximum. The coiled spring inside is not strong enough to cope with heavier tracking cartridges. I have a AT-120-e cartridge on its tone arm and this little jewel shines in the AT-120-USB. Ignore the scale on the anti-skate dial and use a good testing record instead. Problem solved at low costs! As a matter of fact this combination is so good most people visiting me and listen to what the turntable is capable of do not believe the whole package comes at such affordable price......Sure, there are better turntables. But hey, listen to your records, spend your money on the music. And, last but not least, this turntable is way better than most records' technical qualities. The only real flaw now would probably be the wush wush wush kind of noise audible during dead wax between the tracks. To get rid of that as much as possible, treat the turntable with a real turntable mat made of rubber like the original Technics SL-1200 comes with. As a side effect this rubber mat also silences the rather ringy platter. Enjoy your music!

 

I basically agree. But there is always a but......Lets take my combo as an example. That is, the turntable equipped with the AT120E cartridge. This combination is so good, most visitors listening to this combination are astonished all this quality comes at such a low price. Of course, it is no use to compare this turntable with a Goldmund or whatever other exotic turntable. To enjoy records you don't have to spend a fortune on gear. Just make sure the components are well matched, such is the case here. It is affordable, has built-in USB facilities, in short, you can't go wrong at all. Adjust it as good as possible, goes for every turntable. In my opinion, this combo is the perfect way to get involved with records. And as one grows into the format, maybe at some point one wants more but I wouldn't be surprised if many people stay perfectly satisfied with this product. Yes, it is THAT good.......so good in fact that you forgive it the minor flaws it has. Because at normal use these flaws won't be audible or cause problems of any kind. One of the minor flaws is the hollow, plastic plinth. So tapping on the deck while playing a record results in loud bangs. But what jerk would do that? Another flaw frequently mentioned is the hum that is audible at loud volumes. It is demonstrated elsewhere on the internet, some idiot cranks up the volume all the way while the turntable plays no record. A very soft hum can be heard, yes. It is obvious this guy has no idea the hum will be totally harmless as groove noise with ANY record certainly will be a lot louder during normal play. And this groove noise hardly ever is a problem, or the record must be very poorly pressed or the quality of the used vinyl is poor. You get what you pay for, sure. But for the price you can't go wrong.