HBO Doc Going Clear and Tom Cruise

Well, I did see the documentary and am working through the book, but my impression was that the auditing was a form of therapy without any of the ethical boundaries that exist with a licensed therapist.

 

After watching this doc, some of you may want to watch (or re-watch) The Master:



The film isn't about the early days of Scientology, per se, but that is certainly the backdrop for it. I think the director played down the parallels to avoid litigation, but it's so clearly based on Scientology and Hubbard.

 

The bit with Cruise laughing like Dr. Evil was really creepy.

 

You've stated the obvious! Theoretically, ethics (commonly held AND beneficial to society as a whole) should exist at the core of any religion's belief system. So, if we agree on this, how is Scientology a religion, AND how on earth can tax exempt status be justified based on the tax law that exists in any civilized nation???

 

Going Clear : Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief by Lawrence Wright, on which this documentary is based, is in my humble opinion required reading for anyone interested not just in Scientology, but in religion and social psychology as well. I haven't yet seen the documentary, but I can tell you that Mr. Wright, having done his research, tells a harrowing tale that will blow your mind. Oddly enough, Scientology was presented at the outset as a useful self-help movement. From there, it morphed into a destructive tax-avoiding monster that truly does imprison its members.

 

Not to bring politics about the military into it, but at least one can appreciate that the armed forces need to train men and women to be compliant. One obviously needs to have servicemen and women who are willing to obey orders and do what they are told is for the greater good -- otherwise one would have a very ineffective military.

Scientology can make no similar argument about its need to indoctrinate people in that way.

 

Hubbard was nuttier than a PayDay. What kind of kooks buy into thinking holding on to two tin cans hooked up to a meter will set them free, anyway?

I do wonder if Hubbard was maybe not nuts but just got off on devising the biggest practical joke ever. I cannot imagine the feeling of making the upper levels after ten years and opening the top secret briefcase only to find a science fiction scribbled paper that a ten yr old boy might write LOL.

What a sad species we can be to one another at times. Ironic that an organization whose moto is to end all suffering and insanity etc was and is one of the largest abusers of the very thing they say they protest against.

I also have to wonder how much Tom and John are believers vs captives by blackmail to this organization. Either way, what an existence.

Does anyone know what levels Tom and John are at now? Surely theyve been given the "briefcases" by now. And if they have I wonder what they thought when they read about all the alien goofy stuff? Maybe they keep the carrot just out of reach for their "stars". Or maybe those two are fed so much money that they play the part as any good actor would.

Just a weird and crazy entity Scientology is.

And apparently vicious, violent and cruel.

 

More and more coming out by the day:

http://tonyortega.org/

 

I couldn't care less what someone else believes in. There's an old saying, one mans religion is another mans cult. The fact that other people care so much about what another man believes, that's the scary thing. A scientologist has never done anything to me. Never burned a cross on my lawn or demand I believe what they believe or die. This amounts to nothing more than busy-body ism.

 

When people label concern with "other people's business" 'busy-body-ism', we truly be in trouble. This is a society of activism and concern. Ultimately, you can and should do what you want. However, slamming on others for being "concerned" is way off the mark from what this country claims to be about.

 

Really, I thought it was about the freedom to believe and do what you please without others butting in and telling me I should believe what they believe. What are you "concerned" with another mans private life. That kind of "concern" has traditionally lead to mob rule and police states. Count me out of that scene brother.

 

I am not your brother, but let me approach this another way -- maybe one that feels closer to home.

When any entity is granted the privilege of avoiding paying its taxes, who do you think the powers that be look to to carry the heavier load to make up for that lost revenue??? Things still need to get done AND paid for. The need doesn't all of a sudden disappear.

And btw, nobody here is focusing on the "belief". I suspect that if you had children, and were concerned for their safety, you'd look at this a lot differently. CoS front groups are known to be covertly infiltrating many aspects of society, including partnering up with municipalities to preach their "tech" for a drug-free world. But it doesn't end there.

 

People can believe what they want to believe. You want to believe giant chickens will someday take over and therefore you petition KFC and worship roosters? Have at it. But if it becomes known you are extorting, torturing, belittling, harrasing and becoming a total bully to the other chicken worshipers; then I think its high time people stand up and check your little chicken cult out.

Whistleblowers arent always busy bodies..many times they simply finally had the courage to stand up after being fearful for so long.

I think what infuriates me the most is the bullying. I dont want to join your "sea org" thingy and you call me a piece of trash and every other name in the book? Id take your little contract and rip it up in front of you then probably poke you in the eyes Curly style. Nyuck nyuck.

 

You know, the Nazis never did anything to me. Neither did Jim Jones or Isis. Does that mean I shouldn't be concerned about what they've done to millions of others? Your argument basically invalidates the whole concept of investigative journalism.

It sounds to me like you might have a horse in this race.

 

Seems like there should be a RICO investigation, unless they're "untouchable" for some reason.

 

They are a "religion", which makes them pretty much untouchable. I found their claims of "religious freedom" in the documentary particularly relevant to current events.

 

How? In what way do they qualify as a religion?

 

They were able to convince the IRS that "[Scientology is] operated exclusively for religious and charitable purposes."

That's all that matters.

 

What would they blackmail Tom and John with? That they're (allegedly) gay? Anybody who goes to the supermarket has already heard about that.

 

I suspect that there is more to it than that, especially in Cruise's case. He doesn't come across as being a very likable person in private.

 

Alleged is one thing, having it out there with proof is another. Those guys have probably built up so many defenses around themselves for decades that it would probbaly crush them if the truth came out.
Scientology does not have much of a record of tolerance for gay folks. It backed Prop 8 in California for one thing.

 

Wow, did not realize that!

So much for "liberal Hollywood."

 

Seriously. Naivete needs to go away here. Between, the "I don't care if it doesn't affect me" nonsense above to the "threat of revelations of 'supposedly' private conversations" will not affect anybody stuff.....Sheesh.

 

By the way, it was the San Diego chapter that backed Prop 8. Anyone know for sure if that reflects the stance of the whole enterprise?