Is Denny Laine really on Wings Wild Life album ?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by etcetera, Jun 1, 2015.

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  1. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    I get what yer saying, and it's as accurate a description as any...with Time Fades Away Neil Young deliberately defied everybody's expectations as to what he would do post-Harvest...Wild Life is a similar response to Ram, if not The Beatles career in general. As I said in another Wild Life discussion, it's as though Paul was trying to "smash the Beatles' myth" with Wild Life's raw, anti-production production just as Lennon had done with the Plastic Ono Band album. Hell, you could almost say sound-wise Wild Life is like Paul's version of the POB album (minus the whinging about mummy being dead and 'being a star'/working class hero etc etc ad infinitum...)
     
  2. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Except Wild Life is so much lower level song/lyric writing when compared to Plastic Ono Band. And Lennon was not trying really hard to smash the myth, he is simply doing the album he felt he had to do, smash as it may do. You may not agree about the lower level writing, I know. But Wild Life is a toss off, or drive off into a ditch. POB is no such work.
     
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  3. 905

    905 Senior Member

    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Why the dislike for Bip Bop? Isn't there opinion among some McCartney scholars that Wild Life is a concept album about a band's career, going from primitive rehearsal (Mumbo and Bip Bop) to rough around the edge cover songs to fully realized self composed songs? And maybe this was all accidental as well.
     
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  4. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    There is? That's a good one! I would listen to it with that frame of reference next time, but I am not sure that there will ever be a next time for this album. I played the best half of it just now tonight while reading all these comments. Will I ever go back to this album again?????
     
  5. Ricardo Cosinaro

    Ricardo Cosinaro Forum Resident

    I think the selective memory is mine - now that you mention it I don't really recall him specifically saying "when he met John and Paul" - it was more along the lines of "John and Paul were at the show and Paul told me later how much he really liked what I was doing". I'm paraphrasing here, but I think that's closer to what he said.

    He was actually quite loquacious and rambled on about lots of things until he had to go. I do remember he kept saying "what a bunch of lovely guys" when I asked about his leaving the Moody Blues and mentioned that Justin Hayward had played Atlanta late last year.
     
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  6. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    While we're on the subject...everyone mentions "Mumbo" being an impromptu recording with the tape starting in the middle of a bar and Paul shouting to the engineer, but most don't mention that there would have needed to be several overdubs afterwards if there were only four musicians involved. Does the session book mention who was playing on the original track?

    My guess:

    Paul - piano/vocal (piano sounds too good to be Linda)
    Denny L. - bass (or dubbed later by Paul)?
    Denny S. - drums
    Linda - tambourine (?)
     
  7. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    That seems right.
    He is a nice guy, very approachable and human.
    I saw him do a one man show a few years ago and he was scheduled to do 59 minutes and ended up doing 2 hours and invited everyone up to jam. After the show, he sat at the bar playing, singing and chatting. The guy loves music.
     
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  8. Bemagnus

    Bemagnus Music is fun

    Paul-vokals, bass, elect guitar tambourine?
    Linda-piano, organ
    Denny Laine-elect guitar
    Denny S -drums , tambourine?
    According to the book
     
  9. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    You don't think placing the lines "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me, Yoko and me, and that's reality. The dream is over" as the culmination of the last real song on the album is trying to smash the Beatles myth?

    What more could he do that would fit this definition? Write How Do You Sleep?
     
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  10. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    No, not trying to smash the myth. He is smashing the myth, but just in his own mind. It's just the way he felt at the time and it's one important song on the album. He also comments on Elvis, and others. Is he trying to smash the Elvis myth? The Jesus myth too? Not really.

    But back to the comment I was answering to. Was Paul trying to smash the myth with Wild Life? Or did he in fact do just that? I don't think so either. The album was ignored by a large public.
     
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  11. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    I think he was trying to smash myths in general, including with the first line "God is a concept by which we measure our pain" which he felt was important enough to not only repeat but to tell us he was going to repeat. He's not hedging that with an "I".
     
  12. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    But saying he is "smashing myths" is like saying he has the power and desire to shake the world's belief in these things. When in really he is a singer / songwriter stating what "he" believes in and does not believe in, and he goes down the laundry list.

    Did he smash your Beatles myth? From the way you are writing is seems like he did. I took it as an artist writing/speaking about where he is at that moment in his mind, trampling a few myths (in thought) along the way. I guess if one believes in Lennon as powerful enough to smash gods and myths, then ok.
     
  13. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    I'm saying he was trying to do so, not that he actually shook the world's faith in God. Lennon was kind of a deluded egomaniacal guy who seemed to believe he had that power. This was shortly after he finished planting acorns and doing bed ins for world peace.

    Not many folks describe themselves as a genius. Of course that can be a side effect of mass adulation and those of us who have not experienced it on that level can't say how we would respond in the face of it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  14. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I'm a genius and a god---but I don't let it go to my head.

    My (only) proof: I've had an appreciation thread in my honor on this very Forum!!

    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/arnold-grove-appreciation-thread.420349/

    ;)
     
  15. Bemagnus

    Bemagnus Music is fun

    You are a genius imo-even a god. Ok you are a God-genius. I would not trade one of your genius and sublime postings for the Complete work of William Shakespeare and the Beatles together:)
     
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  16. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Thank you. I am highly praised in many psychiatric hospitals around the globe. Judging by your generous comments, I can see that you must be a frequent visitor of those establishments. ;)
     
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  17. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Thanks. As I mentioned earlier I'm wondering if Linda could have played that piano part, but I haven't listened to live tapes like some others here probably have. Any idea?
     
  18. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Exactly...Rfreeman pretty much nailed what I was getting re: Lennon "smashing the Beatles myth". Add in the epic Rolling Stone interview he did right after releasing POB, I'd say John did a helluva job there of myth-smashing.
    I reckon Paul was trying to smash the myth by -considering he was more or less the main architect behind Sgt Pepper and Abbey Road (not to mention Ram)- making an album that on the surface came across as being raw sounding and unfinished, basically the antithesis of the Pepper/Abbey Road aesthetic. Again, fans who knew what Paul's capabilities were -given his natural talent and songwriting abilities- must have had a bit of a time figuring out what to make of an album like Wild Life. I'm convinced that the way Paul approached the whole Wild Life project was wholly deliberate...and, given how it turned out, explains why he never quite took that kind of approach to his records again...
     
  19. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Agreed. I really like most of the things I've heard from Laine.

    The two 60s singles are great. The two tracks you mention are the most known, but the two others are really nice as well. They're pretty hard to find ("Too Much in Love" is on YouTube nowadays, but to hear "Ask the People" you'll have to trawl the net...)

    And his contributions to Wings are generally very good as well. His first contribution "I Would Only Smile" might be the weakest of the bunch, and of course wasn't released until Wings was about to fold.

    Next came "No Words" on BOTR, which to me is one of the highlights on the album. Supposedly, Paul's contribution is that he added the middle eight, which admittedly elevates the track.

    Then we have another track which was held over, "Send Me the Heart", which to me is one of the more successful country efforts that Wings had.

    "Time to Hide" from Speed of Sound and the Wings over the World tour is a monster rock song.

    And then we come to the album where I think Denny shines the most, London Town. If I've understood correctly, the two "Children" tracks are more or less written solely by Denny, even though Paul got a co-write on the tracks. I've always argued that Denny probably had a big hand in making the album so folksy. All the tracks he has a hand in has that folksy vibe - "London Town", "Children Children", "Deliver Your Children", "Don't Let It Bring You Down" and "Morse Moose and the Grey Goose". (And of course, it applies to "Mull of Kintyre" as well, recorded during the same sessions.) It's my pet theory that the "Grey Goose" bit of the final track was Denny's, while Paul brought in the "Morse Moose" wackiness.

    Then we have the Back to the Egg sessions where Denny contributes "Again and Again and Again", which to me is enjoyable but seems to be a lesser track. Apparently two songs combined into one.

    The final contributions are "Weep for Love", very unjustly relegated to Denny's solo album - it's a wonderful track with great Wings harmonies - and "Rainclouds", hidden away on Paul's solo single "Ebony and Ivory" and until now never included on any CD reissue. A great pity, because it's the best track of all Denny's contributions.

    (Of course, Denny also got the odd lead vocals on some songs penned by Paul alone, and he always acquitted himself very well in those instances.)

    So that's a pretty high batting average.
     
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  20. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    The 'Mumbo Link' at the end sounds like it might be a snippet of just the overdubs (?). Included there are bass, the dual guitar track and the extra drums. I presume most of the rest was live (piano, drums, organ, other guitar).

    I wonder if the extent of the 'Dylan influence' went as far as Paul singing his main vocals live with the basic track? Bob always recorded his vocals live. It would be interesting to know if Paul did this or if he overdubbed them later.

    I've heard it suggested before that McCartney basically fluctuated between two approaches during his early solo career - Get Back (unreleased, of course) and Abbey Road. While that's probably too simplistic, there is some truth in it (IMO). Get Back > McCartney > Wild Life = raw, simple, off the cuff, vs. Abbey Road > Ram > Band On The Run...you get the idea.

    Side One is very simple musically (all 4 songs get by on a few chords and are repetitive). But if Linda was to be musically integrated into the band, some songs probably had to be simple ;). Side Two is more musically involved though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
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  21. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    'Cept you forgot one: Red Rose Speedway, which is definitely in the Abbey Road/Ram category...
     
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  22. backseat

    backseat Italian translator - Paul McCartney's 'The Lyrics'

    Location:
    Italy
    According to Melody Maker (early August issue), an initial secret session was held in Abbey Road on the previous Sunday, which should be July 25th, 1971. Chip Madinger some months ago told us that the starting date for Wild Life was July 24th.
    In my book I placed sessions for basic tracks between 25th and 27th July.
     
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  23. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Thanks.
     
  24. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Nice summary of Denny's Wings songs.
     
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  25. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    The chronology is off to be intentional, but there are a couple of interesting connections to 'How Do You Sleep'...

    Firstly, 'Some People Never Know' contains the line 'Some people CAN sleep at night time...' I assume this must be just a coincidence, as I don't think Paul would have been aware of John's song before its release (would he?)

    Secondly, it's often commented on that 'Dear Friend', despite being known as Paul's 'answer song' to HDYS, was actually recorded first. What's not usually said is that both songs uncannily share the same descending minor-key 3-chord sequence to start their verses.
     
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