BOB DYLAN: Outtakes, Alternates & Live Recordings, 1965-1966

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by HominyRhodes, Jun 1, 2015.

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  1. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago
    I've done a little sorting of the non-LP material already in circulation, and it would be nice to have all of this in one package (the Biograph material is already on Side Tracks):
    JAN 13 1965: I'LL KEEP IT WITH MINE..........T-01 Biograph
    OCT 05 1965: JET PILOT.......................T-__ Biograph
    OCT 05 1965: I WANNA BE YOUR LOVER...........T-06 Biograph
    NOV 30 1965: CAN YOU PLEASE CRAWL OUT........T-__ Biograph


    JAN 13 1965: SUBTERRANEAN HOMESICK BLUES.....T-01 Bootleg Series Vol.1-3
    JAN 13 1965: FAREWELL ANGELINA...............T-01 Bootleg Series Vol.1-3
    MAY 21 1965: IF YOU GOTTA GO, GO NOW.........O.D. Bootleg Series Vol.1-3
    JUN 15 1965: PHANTOM ENGINEER................T-06 Bootleg Series Vol.1-3
    JUN 15 1965: BARBED WIRE FENCE...............T-06 Bootleg Series Vol.1-3
    JUN 15 1965: LIKE A ROLLING STONE............T-04 Bootleg Series Vol.1-3
    JAN 21 1966: SHE'S YOUR LOVER NOW............T-__ Bootleg Series Vol.1-3
    JAN 27 1966: I'LL KEEP IT WITH MINE..........T-__ Bootleg Series Vol.1-3


    JAN 13 1965: IT'S ALL OVER NOW BABY BLUE.....T-01 NDH
    JAN 14 1965: SHE BELONGS TO ME...............T-__ NDH
    JUN 15 1965: PHANTOM ENGINEER................T-09 NDH
    JUL 29 1965: TOMBSTONE BLUES.................T-09 NDH
    JUL 30 1965: DESOLATION ROW..................T-01 NDH
    AUG 02 1965: HIGHWAY 61 REVISITED............T-06 NDH
    AUG 02 1965: JUST LIKE TOM...BLUES...........T-05 NDH
    NOV 30 1965: VISIONS OF JOHANNA/FREEZE OUT...T-01 NDH
    JAN 25 1966: LEOPARD-SKIN PILLBOX HAT........T-__ NDH
    FEB 16 1966: STUCK INSIDE OF MOBILE..........T-05 NDH


    JAN 13 1965: OUTLAW BLUES....................T-01 NDH iTunes mp3

    AUG 02 1965: HIGHWAY 61 REVISITED............T-01 NDH SAMPLER CD [FRAG]
    AUG 02 1965: HIGHWAY 61 REVISITED............T-07 NDH SAMPLER CD [FRAG]


    JUN 15 1965: LIKE A ROLLING STONE............T-01 H61 CD-ROM [FRAG]
    JUN 15 1965: LIKE A ROLLING STONE............T-05 H61 CD-ROM [FRAG]
    JUN 16 1965: LIKE A ROLLING STONE............T-01,02,06,08,10,15 H61 CD-ROM [FRAGs]
    OCT 05 1965: MEDICINE SUNDAY/MIDNIGHT TRAIN..T-__ H61 CD-ROM 87183


    JUN 16 1965: LIKE A ROLLING STONE............T-04 INSTR. ONLY [BLOOMFIELD BOX]
    AUG 04 1965: TOMBSTONE BLUES Chambers Bros...O.D. T-11 7/29/65 [BLOOMFIELD BOX]


    JAN 13 1965: CALIFORNIA......................T-02 N.C.I.S TV Soundtrack Vol. 2

    JAN 13 1965: YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT...........T-01 unrel'd
    JAN 13 1965: LOVE MINUS ZERO/NO LIMIT............T-01 unrel'd [possibly 1/14/65]
    MAY 12 1965: IF YOU GOTTA GO, GO NOW**...........T-__ unrel'd "SALES MESSAGE" (London)
    JUN 15 1965: BARBED WIRE FENCE...................T-__ unrel'd, acetate
    JUN 16 1965: WHY...BE SO FRANTIC.................T-__ unrel'd
    JUL 29 1965: IT TAKES A...LAUGH..................T-__ film snippet NDH
    JUL 30 1965: FROM A BUICK 6......................T-03 MISTAKE REL. US/CANADA/JAPAN LPs
    JUL 30 1965: CAN YOU PLEASE CRAWL................T-17 unrel'd "slow" ver.
    JUL 30 1965: CAN YOU PLEASE CRAWL................T-21 MISTAKE REL. "slow" ver.
    OCT 05 1965: CAN YOU PLEASE CRAWL OUT............T-__ unrel'd [FRAG] 87184
    OCT 05 1965: I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR PARTNER.....T-__ unrel'd [FRAG] 87185
    OCT 05 1965: I WANNA BE YOUR LOVER...............T-__ unrel'd 87185
    OCT 05 1965: Instrumental/NUMBER ONE ............T-__ unrel'd 87187 + 87192
    NOV 30 1965: VISIONS OF JOHANNA/FREEZE OUT.......T-__ unrel'd 88581
    NOV 30 1965: VISIONS OF JOHANNA/FREEZE OUT.......T-__ unrel'd 88581
    NOV 30 1965: CAN YOU PLEASE CRAWL OUT............T-__ unrel'd 88582
    JAN 21 1966: SHE'S YOUR LOVER NOW (solo).........T-__ unrel'd 89210
    FEB 15 1966: [I'LL] KEEP IT WITH MINE (instr.)...T-__ I'm Not There film 83185


    EDIT: Some of these tracks are merely brief fragments, so they wouldn't take up too much space on a CD.
     
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  2. Justin Brooks

    Justin Brooks Forum Resident

    i would expect late August.
     
  3. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago
    In that post on ExpectingRain, they said that their artwork had just been accepted for the project, so I'm sure it will be awhile.
     
  4. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Ok, thanks!
     
  5. subtr

    subtr Forum Resident

    Will the 18CD version potentially be a collection of all/many/some of the line recordings and what circulates of the audience recordings from 1965? I'm not with my collection at the moment, but I'd imagine all the studio material would go on the five disc set, and perhaps one live show (Manchester is the obvious choice, even if predictable, but maybe we'd get a Hollywood Bowl/Forest Hills/Complete Newport/other UK tour instead), but from the list of live shows that year I imagine that could spread to 18 discs really quite easily, maybe including a couple of previously uncirculating shows.
     
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  6. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    If the rumored 18 CD set is in fact the 1965 Copyright Extension Collection, the bill for that artwork must be staggering.

    [​IMG]

    Perhaps they called in Rubber Dubber or Ken Douglas as an art consultant.
     
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  7. LonesomeDayBlues

    LonesomeDayBlues Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    I think the 18 CDs will be 1966 live tour stuff. A lot on your list has already been re-released just recently so the copyright protection is in place.
     
  8. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago
    I'm hoping that it contains a lot of live/studio copyright extension material never "officially released," but that it can also serve as a single-source repository for those scattered tracks that I listed.
     
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  9. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    As the great divide between our collective conjecture about "Side Tracks" on this forum and its eventual content showed, the gathering of scattered tracks is far more our priority than theirs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2015
  10. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago
    Yeah, why didn't they put the '66 live Tom Thumbs Blues on that?? :)

    BTW: I finally bought the CD issue of Side Tracks -- 25 bucks, on sale at A**zon. I already had everything on vinyl.
     
  11. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Such a completist. :) I have never owned "Greatest Hits 1" on CD, and I never will.
     
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  12. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago
    Here's what I've been using for CD-Rs:
    [​IMG]
     
  13. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Senior Member

    PRE-ORDERED!!

    :biglaugh:
     
  14. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago
    I should probably mention that "Ol' black Bascom'" was the 1971 lyric transcription for the opening lines of Tell Me Momma. Dylan writer Clinton Heylin hilariously called that transcriber a "cloth-eared illiterate," and asked "Who, pray tell, is Ol' black Bascom?" He then corrected the verse from:

    Ol'black Bascom/ don't break no mirror/cold black water dog/make no tears

    to

    Cold black glass don't/make no mirror/cold black water don't/make no tears

    When I read the original version in Dylan's Writings and Drawings (1973) I thought ol' black Bascom was a dog!
     
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  15. hollowhorn

    hollowhorn In Memoriam In Memoriam

    Location:
    Isle of Asda
    Your double date sessions can be broken down to individual days via Krogsgaard & Björner.
     
  16. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago
    Circa 1980, in broad daylight, I walked into Rolling Stone Records (appropriately enough) in downtown Chicago, and in the "Imports" section, I found Tough Songs, a 2-LP "Australian" album on the "Phoenix" label. Uh-huh, right. But for the first time, I was able to hear Dylan's electric set from the so-called Albert Hall show in 1966 in decent sound quality. The second disc was a collection of some studio rarities from that era. Ever since, I've always considered the 16-month time frame from January 1965 to May 1966 to be one continuous period.

    Most of the booted '65-'66 material that originally appeared on vinyl, or was circulated on cassettes, has now been officially released, or soon will be, hallelujah! And I realize that file-sharing has made those old underground records and tapes virtually obsolete, but as archival historical relics, those old vinyl boots still fascinate me. Using the extensive listings on Craig Pinkerton's website, I traced the material included on Tough Songs backwards.

    Tough Songs

    2-LP (1979)

    1.
    Tell Me Mama
    I Don't Believe You
    Baby Let Me Follow You Down
    Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues
    2.
    Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat
    One Too Many Mornings
    Ballad of a Thin Man
    Like a Rolling Stone
    3.
    I Wanna Be Your Lover
    Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window (fast ver. single)
    From a Buick 6
    Visions of Johanna (Freeze Out)
    She's Your Lover Now
    4.
    Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window (slow)
    It Takes a Lot to Laugh
    Killing Me Alive/Sitting on a Barbed Wire Fence
    If You Gotta Go, Go Now
    She Belongs to Me
    Love Minus Zero/No Limit


    Sides 1 & 2: DERIVED FROM: Royal Albert Hall
    Sides 3 & 4: DERIVED FROM: Now Your Mouth Cries Wolf
    ----------------------------------------------
    Now Your Mouth Cries Wolf

    (1974)
    1.
    I Wanna Be Your Lover
    Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window (fast ver. single)
    From a Buick 6
    Visions of Johanna (Freeze Out)
    She's Your Lover Now

    2.
    Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window (slow)
    It Takes a Lot to Laugh
    Killing Me Alive/Sitting on a Barbed Wire Fence
    If You Gotta Go, Go Now
    She Belongs to Me
    Love Minus Zero/No Limit


    Side one: DERIVED FROM: Seems Like a Freeze Out, side 2

    Side two: DERIVED FROM: tracks on Stealin', side 1
    ----------------------------------------------
    Seems Like a Freeze Out
    (1971)
    1.
    California
    Lay down your weary tune
    Dusty old Fair grounds
    Grasshoppers on my pillow (a/k/a Back Door Blues)
    All over you
    Watcha gonna do

    Farewell
    2.
    I Wanna Be Your Lover
    Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window (fast ver. single)
    From a Buick 6
    Visions of Johanna (Freeze Out)
    She's Your Lover Now
    ----------------------------------------------
    Royal Albert Hall

    (1970-71)
    Tell Me Mama
    I Don't Believe You
    Baby Let Me Follow You Down
    Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues

    2.
    Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat
    One Too Many Mornings
    Ballad of a Thin Man
    Like a Rolling Stone

    ----------------------------------------------
    Stealin'
    (1969)
    1.
    Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window
    It Takes a Lot to Laugh
    Killing Me Alive/Sitting on a Barbed Wire Fence
    If You Gotta Go, Go Now
    She Belongs to Me
    Love Minus Zero/No Limit
    2.
    New Orleans rag (cuts out)
    That's all right Mama
    Cocaine (cuts out)
    Stealin'
    Hard times in New York town
    Wade in the water
    It's all over now, Baby blue
    Suze (The cough song)


    ----------------------------------------------
     
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  17. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago
    Yes, but for simplicity sake, I combined them. It seems to me that the sessions were more or less continuous, from one evening into the early hours of the next day. Just my take on it.
     
  18. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Senior Member

    Think of How Cool it would be if Columbia/SONY issued all these as separate "boutique" volumes!

    (uh, I-am-a-dork)
     
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  19. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago
    Bob Dylan & The Hawks, Free Trade Hall, Manchester, England
    Recorded: May 17, 1966
    Unofficial first release: 1970 ("electric" second half only)
    Officially Released: October 13, 1998 as Bootleg Series Vol. 4: Live 1966 - The "Royal Albert Hall" Concert
    Certified Gold by the RIAA in November 2005

    [​IMG]
    Oldham Evening Chronicle, 25 May 1966: "So the knockers
    are all stations go again. I am referring to the fantastic
    performance given by Bob Dylan at the Free Trade Hall last
    Tuesday night... I think Bob put his feelings over to the
    knockers just great. When someone shouted out to him
    'Judas!', he just calmly went to the microphone and quietly
    drawled 'Ya liar'..."


    Back in the late 1960s and early 1970s, he was responsible for one of the earliest Basement Tapes releases by Bob Dylan, as well as a version of The Beatles' Get Back that popped up on the Lemon Records label. As "Michael O," he was extensively quoted in Clinton Heylin's 1995 book, Bootleg: The Secret History of the Other Recording Industry, and as a member of the SH Forums, he apparently liked a couple of my posts, so he got in touch. Hopefully, he'll write a book or do a screenplay about some of the colorful episodes from his "reckless" youth, but I really just wanted to know about the music and the recordings themselves.

    He's contributed to several threads here over the years, but took the time to answer a few more questions about the classic Royal Albert Hall/Manchester live recording from 1966, which Michael first heard four years later, on an acetate disc in the possession of an English music entrepreneur visiting Southern California. The visitor had copies of other rare recordings by Led Zeppelin, The Beatles and The Who, but Michael was most interested in the Dylan disc. (The only live Dylan recording from the '65-'66 period to be officially released up to that time was a B-side, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues, recorded in Liverpool in 1966.) What happened next truly helped to set the wheels in motion for what ultimately became Bob Dylan's highly-successful "official" Bootleg Series.

    I asked Michael what his reaction was when he first heard Tell Me Momma, a personal favorite of mine, which had never been released in any form at that time, and also what he thought about the whole "Judas!" episode captured on the original tape.

    "As a Dylan fan of 13-14 years of age during his wildly popular first year of chart hits ('Rolling Stone' thru the motorcycle accident) I was entranced - smitten even - by his bizarre spaced out persona. Too young to understand it was just drugs, my friends assumed he was just a brilliant eccentric, a poet from another mental world. I was highly aware of his many provocative interviews.

    "As Clinton Heylin has noted in his writings, we Dylan fans of that sort were nonplussed by his embrace of country music and 'the simple life'. Everybody else moved on. As the practical '70s replaced the dreamy '60s, most people forgot the mystery of the earlier Dylan. In fact, I'd say they started to forget about him entirely.

    "The discovery of the Basements gave me something from the era to hold onto, lyrically anyway. But when English Alan played me the Albert Hall acetate my jaw dropped. It brought back spacey Dylan AND was a clear example of why he mattered. I'd never heard a show with such intensity, but it was everything I could have wished for from the writer of 'Positively 4th Street' - pure rebellious danger-zone flirting rock. And he talked!

    "Funny, Alan was all about his Zeppelin tapes that night but I made him play me the intro to 'Leopard Skin' over and over...We played the second side first. I think he wanted me to hear Dylan and the shouting. The 'Judas' bit was just funny to me, more confrontation. I heard the thing as a whole, didn't pause at that one moment. When we turned it over and I heard Dylan's buried vocal on 'Tell Me Momma,' I focused first on that as a shortcoming: 'Damn, the mix kinda sucks, it'll ruin my [sales] pitch that this is the best sounding bootleg ever.' And indeed, one smartass record shop owner refused to believe that this was a line recording. After hearing the first track he all but called me a liar, [saying] 'It's just an audience recording,' and he didn't buy any from me, didn't even want it.


    "But 'Tell Me Momma' was an unheard song from *that* Dylan that I had revered, and after my initial qualms about the mix, I realized this was a find! It took on a huge significance to me.

    "I was a frustrated record company, so yeah, I had fantasies that the record would someday be released. My mastering had sucked - done very black market, the original tape sounded so much better - and I wished for people to hear how great it was. Plus, I had a daydream they'd use my 'Royal Albert Hall' title, the incorrect moniker I'd deliberately given it so that I could tell the pressing plant the label was 'Royal' and the artist was 'Albert Hall.'"

    [​IMG]

    NEXT: tape reels, acetates, etc.





     
  20. capt.co

    capt.co Forum Resident

    Still better than the Tempest cover...
     
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  21. Interesting stuff - thanks! Sounds like the Manchester (i.e., "Royal Albert Hall" show) was the first of many either whole or parts of Dylan shows from that tour to find their way into circulation. Personally, I don't think it quite lives up to its "greatest concert ever" rep - as there are a number of other recorded performances from the tour on par or even better than this one - as evidenced by the boots. It's really the confrontational stuff I believe that is more responsible for its legendary status.

    Interesting that the label in this case says mono - as both the official version and the most widely circulating grey market versions are in stereo. As an aside, I can't stand the mastering on the official version - similarly to the Beatle's Hollywood Bowl shows, I think they went out of their way to achieve a "big" sound that I find abrasive and unnatural.

    BTW I'm getting around to putting together a post identifying the highlights of the '66 tour recordings, as well as suggesting how they might best be configured in an archival set...
     
  22. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago
    re: Live 1966
    Some final comments from "Michael O. "

    After busting my chops a little for conflating the pressing of a record with the cutting of an acetate by means of a lathe (I swear I know the difference, honest!), Michael offered more details about the recordings themselves:

    (Explaining to me) "....An acetate is an individual disc cut with a giant lathe. Back in the day acetates were the only way for an artist to take music out of the studio.

    "English Alan's had a friend who in the 60s-70s was the main "disc cutter" engineer at IBC Studios. Everyone took their tapes to IBC to get discs made. Dylan's people did the same....The disc cutter guy was a collector and a sneak. He rigged up a second recorder in studio to surreptitiously copy for himself anything people brought in. Therefore he wound up with second generation copies of many major projects of the moment.

    "English Alan was a rabid collector and, as friend of the disc cutter, got copies of everything; acetates and often tape copies too. To hear Alan tell it, nobody cared about the Dylan tape. It was an afterthought, tossed on top of the pile of other, more "valuable" stuff that Alan craved and begged for, like live Led Zeppelin, or Pete Townshend's home demos.

    "The RAH [Royal Albert Hall] tape was 15 i.p.s. mono on a ten-inch reel for the first six songs, and a second seven-inch plastic reel with the final two songs in stereo. In those days, it was difficult to mix mono and stereo on the same disc. Going back and forth mono/stereo created weird phasing issues, so to cut the RAH disc the engineer edited the stereo tape onto the end of the mono tape and ran the whole program in mono. This resulted in a deterioration in sound quality for the last two songs because they didn't squash into mono well. Afterwards the engineer separated the two tapes again. Not caring about Dylan, he gave his tape originals to Alan. Those are the tapes I used to cut the bootleg. I duplicated his all-to-mono cut because that's what Alan said the 'professional' did and I, being seventeen years old, didn't know how to find a better way of doing it. Unfortunately I no longer had a good place to cut my master version and ended up with an old guy in a shady place who took my money and cut a crap sounding record. Compressed to death. Sad.


    "Alan had everything on acetate and that's what we listened to. When I met up with him, he played those (again, he didn't emphasize Dylan.) It wasn't until I said 'What else ya got?' that he pulled out the disc. And yes, he played side two of the acetate first. He thought the spoken intro was the most interesting part...

    "[Later, his] roommate gave me the tapes. Alan had already run out his passport and returned to England..."

    Lastly, I asked Michael's opinion of the officially released version of "Albert Hall," and whether he'd ever heard the "alternate mix" of the show, which was leaked and bootlegged as Guitars Kissing & The Contemporary Fix, a version that some Dylan fans prefer.

    "To answer your final question, the Albert Hall released version sounds *exactly* like my original tape did. I have not heard Guitars Kissing, but I can imagine there was room in the original mix to add ambience, make it sound bigger etc. It sounds like Dylan didn't want those 'improvements,' but instead wanted the released version to sound like what he remembered from IBC."

    My thanks to Michael, and I hope he'll jump in here sometime and see what he can "learn" from us Dylan experts. :confused:



    [​IMG] (Manchester '66 show: image of IBC 3-Track tape box from Live 1966 liner notes)
     
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  23. Look,forward to your 66 tour highlight list!
     
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  24. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago
    "Rebalancing the instruments wasn't really much of a possibility, since they'd been premixed at the time to fit on three tracks: bass and drums on one, piano and organ on another, and vocal and guitar on the last. An early version of the remastered tapes filtered out most of the audience and hall sound. This added a closeness and clarity to the vocals, but took away from the manic edginess of the room feel. It was abandoned in favor of the rawer sound heard here."

    That's from the liner notes to the official CD set, referring to the 15 ips, 3-track stereo tapes. The Eat the Document film crew recorded many of these shows, as well, on mono Nagra recorders, at 7 1/2 ips, and those tapes were used for the acoustic tracks included in the release. It was the Guitars Kissing mix that was "abandoned," supposedly at Dylan's insistence. I take it that's the mix that you prefer?

    And please, please work up a good selected list of live shows that we can mull over and examine. Thanks very much.
     
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  25. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    The Live 1966 notes also mention that 4 shows got the full 3-track recording treatment (Sheffield, The two Royal Albert Hall shows, and, of course, Manchester). So in retrospect, isn't it funny that when it was determined a live recording from the tour would make a suitable b-side for "I Want You," they choose Liverpool, for which they apparently only had a (albeit quite fantastic) soundboard tape?

    Not that I'm criticizing. That particular "Just Like Tom Thumb Blues" is cataclysmic.
     
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