Capitol Records 2-track Reel-to-Reel Tapes, 1957-1958

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. michael22

    michael22 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knoxville TN
    What actually was defective about the Sinatra track? I've heard two copies: one has a few clicks on the Sinatra track, and one sounded fine. That track BTW is one of the finest Sinatra recordings I've ever heard.
     
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    It varies. I remember my first copy when something like three minutes with the left track greatly reduced in volume, then there was a big POP and the last 90 seconds or so sounded great. I think my first two copies were that way. A copy that somebody sent me also had a problem with the left channel, but it was more along the lines of the left channel being weaker and duller. My third copy also had lesser problems along those lines. Fourth copy nailed it.
     
  3. 762rob

    762rob Forum Resident

    THE BIG JOE TURNER TAPE IS AWESOME!
     
  4. michael22

    michael22 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knoxville TN
    Just acquired a copy of ZF-25 Debussy/Ravel with the LA Philharmonic conducted by Leinsdorf and it is beautiful. It's duplicated on Scotch 190 which (no surprise) is slightly rippled, but the tape still plays well. Am always amazed at how fine these Capitol recordings are. Wonder where this was recorded ...
     
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  5. markedasred

    markedasred Forum Resident

    Location:
    Worcester UK
    I Just got hold of a copy of the very first capitol, the Intro to Stereo. Toying with putting it in to the for sale section but hard to price as I had the first HMV stereo tape two weeks back that auctioned for £208, so probably auction is the best option. That sum is both at once a lot of cash, but then when you want to buy pre recorded reels from current labels these days, the price is outrageous.
     
  6. Deke Dickerson

    Deke Dickerson Forum Resident

    Just to throw two cents in on this thread, the later Capitol reel tapes on 4-track (quarter track) also seem to be special, different stereo mixes that are sometimes wildly different than the LP releases. I've got a couple of the Beach Boys albums on Capitol reel to reel tape and the stereo mixes sound way different to me. I find this sort of thing very interesting, but then again I also prefer the company of vinyl records to humans....
     
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    To my knowledge, they all use the standard LP mixes. Can you upload a clip or two, along with a link?
     
  8. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edmonton
    The 4 track of Sinatra's Nice 'n Easy sounds nearly identical to the LP mix in terms of balance, but there's less EQ and compression on the tape. Was it duped from the phono reel or from a copy of the session tapes without compression? I'm curious.
     
  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    The compression/limiting would have been added during LP cutting, no?
     
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  10. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Ah, right. Makes sense. This 4 track is from the phono reel, then.

    I should've clarified that I've only got the MoFi release to compare it to and not an original pressing. Not sure if there'd be more or less EQ and compression on the original, but while sparing, there's definitely some of that business going on with the MoFi. Unavoidable, since the tape reel is extremely dynamic and would probably break grooves or cause mistracking if left the way it is for vinyl cutting.

    But, in terms of mike placement, channel balance and overall mixing levels, the 4 track and the LP are identical. (The 4 track blows the LP out of the water in terms of transparency and presence, though, obviously).
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
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  11. Deke Dickerson

    Deke Dickerson Forum Resident

    MLutthans--

    i don't have a way of easily doing that. My Ampex 960 portable was the only quarter track machine I had and it's not working correctly anymore. I could be wrong, but when I played them after purchasing the tapes they certainly sounded like different mixes to me.

    Deke
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Same mixes.
     
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  13. Deke Dickerson

    Deke Dickerson Forum Resident

    Well, there ya go....I stand corrected!

    Deke
     
  14. SBC

    SBC Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Sorry if this was covered but...
    Are the mixes on the LP version of "stars in stereo" the same as those on the reel to reel tape?
     
  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    That is a damn good question. I'm not sure. Possibly not the same. The 7 1/2 ips stereo reel mixes could not have been used to cut stereo LP's.
     
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  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    No, I have both, and they are different mixes from each other. In the case of the Sinatra track, they are different, too, from the Where Are You stereo LP mix.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
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  17. SBC

    SBC Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Thanks!
     
  18. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC
    Is the Stars on Stereo LP the same 2 track mix as the 7 ips reel to reel tape of 1958??
     
  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    That's Stars in Stereo, and the answer is just a few posts back. The master 2-track reels for the tape releases were done straight to 7.5 ips; LP masters at Capitol from this time period are typically 15 ips. My guess is that they didn't want to do a dub from 7.5 ips up to 15 ips, so they just remixed the songs to create a new LP running master of the same material.
     
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  20. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Unrelated question. Were phono reels always 15 IPS? In a few rare cases, 7.5 IPS reels sound good enough to my ears to have been used for LP mastering.

    Sinatra's "Nice 'n' Easy" for example.
     
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  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Well, Nice 'n' Easy was not a 2-track release, but 4-track ("quarter track"), which is another kettle of fish altogether. Plus, the master for the Nice 'n' Easy reel was derived from the stereo LP mix master. I'd think that by the time that piece of tape runs through your player, you are facing multiple generations of tape dubbing:

    3-track tape ---> Stereo mixdown ---> Dub of mixdown as a workpart for Capitol's tape division ---> Formatted 4-track dubbing master ---> your tape

    It's a minor miracle that it sounds as good as it does, and I'd submit that most titles do not fare that well.

    Just due to the wealth of material that had to be mastered/cut/re-cut for 45/78/EP/LP at Capitol, I'd imagine that things were pretty well standardized at one speed, 15 ips, although there certainly may be exceptions. (In fact, I'd say that the 7.5 IPS mixes that were made specifically for 2-track tape release WERE the exception, but they also were never meant to be used in a cutting room, and I have no idea at which speed the occasional oddity like The Kingston Trio's Stereo Concert album were recorded, but again, if there was some anomaly in the recording process, I'd think the cutting masters would have been 15 ips. I will gladly stand corrected by anybody with info to the contrary.)
     
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  22. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edmonton
    It is a miracle. This tape really sings.

    Forgot to mention that Nice 'n' Easy is a 4-track. Thanks for clarifying for others.

    Although it's a 4-track, it sounds better than some of the half-tracks in my music library, and certainly better than a lot of records. Proof that a very carefully duped 4-track/7.5 IPS tape can sound as good if not better than some records, although it's rare the QC was at a level acceptable enough for such a miracle as Nice 'n' Easy to happen.
     
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  23. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC
    Guys, does anyone know the answers to the following regarding the Capitol 2 track tapes:

    If the Capitol tape box says "2 track 7 1/2 ips For Inline Heads" does this mean , unequivebly that it is a twin track tape with no audio in the center?

    Also, I see some tapes issued by the Bel Canto label that also say "Inline". Are these also 2 track, twin track with no audio in the middle?

    Many thanks to anyone who can confirm.

    Thanks!

    The Stereoguy.
     
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    "Twin track" is an odd nomenclature that has come to be associated with (for instance) the Beatles 1963 recording style, i.e., instruments on one track, vocals on the other, with the primary intention of combining the two for mono release. "Two track" is an actual audio format! It has absolutely nothing to do with audio being left, right, center, or otherwise. Twin track ≠ Two track. Those Beatles recordings were made on two-track tape in a manner that has come to be known as "twin track." The two should not be confused or used interchangeably.

    The short answer to your question is: There's plenty of stuff on the left, plenty on the right, and plenty in the middle on these TWO-TRACK (not "twin-track") releases.
     
  25. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC
    Thank you. Yes, I know what 'Two Track" is and what "Twin Track" is, thank you. My question was was as to whether Capitol had used hard left/hard right stereo mixes on those 1957-58 reel to reel tapes. Thanks for answering my question.

    Unlike many, I'm a fan of "Hard left / Hard right" stereo mixes. I do think that instrumental music (like the Ventures "Walk Dont Run") tends to sound better this way than songs with vocals do.
     
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