Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion - Come Dance with Me (released 1959)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by serge, Nov 15, 2009.

Page 15 of 24
  1. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    M.E.? (the Engineer)

    EDIT: Sorry, didn't notice you already asked.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
    jtaylor, Nov 19, 2015
    #351
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Yeah, do we know who M.E. is? I know that a lot of initials have been thrown around here over the years, so I feel that we should be able to figure out who that is.
     
    MLutthans, Nov 19, 2015
    #352
  3. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Boy! For only being in the Museum for 20 minutes you sure knew where to go to find something of interest to you. That tape caught you like a magnet!!!!
     
    paulmock, Nov 19, 2015
    #353
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  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Wait 'til you see the other tape box I photographed there. It's a doozy!
     
    MLutthans, Nov 19, 2015
    #354
  5. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    What are you waiting for?
     
    jtaylor, Nov 19, 2015
    #355
  6. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Just listened to my old interview with Hank Cicalo. He mentions Mike Edson as being in charge of the lacquer cutting rooms.
     
    jtaylor, Nov 19, 2015
    #356
    Simon A likes this.
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Cool -- so he may have cut the PROOF for the LP. I notice that there's also a mention of JH elsewhere on the box. Any ideas?

    Thanks, Jordan!
     
    MLutthans, Nov 19, 2015
    #357
  8. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Any chance the "J" is a "D"?
     
    jtaylor, Nov 19, 2015
    #358
  9. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Funny I saw them but didn't scour over them. I wil next time.
     
    paulmock, Nov 19, 2015
    #359
  10. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    For whatever reason the song was needed, if John chose the mix, I'm *guessing* it's because he didn't like how the recording is so isolated from one channel with the other - even compared with the imaging on the next couple of Sinatra/Capitol albums - with just the added echo of the mix really doing all the work of center "fill".
     
    MMM, Nov 19, 2015
    #360
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  11. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    ...and I ended up writing Hank before seeing your post. :)
     
    MMM, Nov 19, 2015
    #361
  12. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Get some names out of him, will ya?
     
    jtaylor, Nov 19, 2015
    #362
    MMM likes this.
  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    SinatraComeDanceWithMeTapebox1JH.jpg
     
    MLutthans, Nov 19, 2015
    #363
  14. niceneasy

    niceneasy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    United States
    Yep, from my experience as well, the publishing of tape box pics is frequently discouraged.

    The boxes are company/artist property, with access usually given under very specific conditions, and publication of photos of boxes can actually lead to more confusion and misunderstanding than they can add to the historical record - especially if interpreted by those who don't know whatever peculiar shorthand the makers may have been using.

    Obviously, that's not really relevant when the tape box is on public display!
     
    niceneasy, Nov 19, 2015
    #364
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  15. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I'm reading the eq as:

    Come Dance With Me
    Bass = flat, +2db @ 5k

    Something's Gotta Give
    Bass = flat, +2db @ 3k

    Just In Time
    Bass = flat, +4db @ 5k

    Dancing In the Dark
    +2db @ 100hz, +4db @ 5k

    Too Close For Comfort
    +2db @ 100hz, +2db @ 5k

    I Could Have Danced All Night
    Bass = flat, +2db @ 5k

    Saturday Night
    Bass = flat, +2db @ 5k

    Day In, Day Out
    +2db @ 100hz, +4db @ 5k

    Cheek to Cheek
    Bass = flat, +4db @ 3k

    Baubles, Bangles, and Beads
    Bass = flat, +4db @ 5k

    The Song Is You
    Bass = flat, +2db @ 5k

    The Last Dance
    Bass = flat, +4db @ 5k


    I'm drawing a blank at the moment on what the other two (larger) figures are for on each song. The (-) could be for bottom/top filtering, possibly?
     
    MMM, Nov 19, 2015
    #365
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  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    This detail, concerning EQ, intrigues me:
    [​IMG]
    because of the layout of that chart, with its back-and-forth, seemingly deliberate, alternate left-right scribing of the EQ settings (one set of notes for each of the 12 songs, but written in two columns, left and right, rather than a single column).

    Around 1973, this Neve board was installed for mastering use at Capitol:
    CapitolNeve1973.jpeg
    Note that there are essentially two boards in one: An "A" half on the left, and a "B" half on the right. Referring to this photo again:
    [​IMG]
    On that 1970s Neve board, one would have set up the "A" half of the board with the EQ as outlined in that first note:
    Screen shot 2015-11-20 at 10.33.13 AM.png
    and the "B" half of the board according to the second note:
    Screen shot 2015-11-20 at 10.33.24 AM.png
    Between songs one and two, the operator would switch the output of the board from the "A" side to the "B" side of the board. While the second song was running on the B side, he would have prepared the A side of the board with the settings for the third song:
    Screen shot 2015-11-20 at 10.35.40 AM.png
    ....then while the third song ran, he would prep the board's B side with the EQ settings for track 4, thrown the switch at the right time (between tracks), etc., etc., until all six songs on the side had run.

    To my knowledge, in 1958, no such dual-sided mastering board existed at Capitol, so the alternating left/right positioning of the mastering notes is curious. Maybe, for challenging cuts, ancillary gear was being inserted into the signal in pairs, creating an A/B relationship similar to what would later be unified into that Neve mastering console?

    Anybody have any photos of mastering consoles used at Capitol pre-Neve? Just curious.

    (See also: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/1950s-capitol-acetates-what-does-this-symbol-mean.282917/)
     
    MLutthans, Nov 20, 2015
    #366
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  17. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Listening to the 2015 reissue now and it has a bit more reverb than what I'm used to with this. It is still very enjoyable. Nice soundstage. Not too harsh or biting. Frank's vocals sound nicely rounded with the echo on the end. "The Last Dance" sounds nice and airy (as I feel it should).
     
    DLant, Nov 21, 2015
    #367
    Simon A likes this.
  18. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Love this album as I have for decades, it still "bites" me in all versions. It is a rough and raucous album. Just don't ask me about "Just in Time"!!! I do love it, though.
     
    paulmock, Nov 21, 2015
    #368
    Bob Belvedere and DLant like this.
  19. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    Location:
    Quebec City, Canada
    This is one of my favourites and I admit that I prefer the US Reel To Reel version for this one, although I confess not having heard all the LP pressings.
     
    Simon A, Nov 22, 2015
    #369
    rxcory, MLutthans and DLant like this.
  20. colormesinatra

    colormesinatra Forum Resident

    Location:
    Malverne, NY
    Me too! Listening to the HD version now and I love this mix! This album grabs me right away. It pulls you in and doesn't let you go! A real gasser.
     
    colormesinatra, Dec 8, 2015
    #370
    Bob Belvedere likes this.
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Another one not posted here yet, from Billboard:
    Screen shot 2016-03-02 at 8.28.02 PM.png
     
    MLutthans, Mar 2, 2016
    #371
    DLant, Simon A, jtaylor and 2 others like this.
  22. rxcory

    rxcory proud jazz band/marching band parent

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Sorry if it's already been addressed here or on another thread, but is it known who actually did the mastering on the 2015 high-resolution download version of this and/or other Sinatra albums with mastering attributed to "Capitol Studios?"
     
    rxcory, Apr 13, 2016
    #372
    DLant likes this.
  23. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Has this been posted yet?
    [​IMG]
     
    jtaylor, May 23, 2016
    #373
    Simon A, MMM, DLant and 1 other person like this.
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    ^^^^^Great pic, @jtaylor ! I had not seen that before.
     
    MLutthans, May 23, 2016
    #374
    Simon A, DLant, jtaylor and 1 other person like this.
  25. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Me neither!
     
    rangerjohn, May 23, 2016
    #375
    Simon A and DLant like this.
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