Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality (and general discussion): Singles, Soundtracks, Etc.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. mahanusafa02

    mahanusafa02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Matt, if you don't have "It's the Same Old Dream" in mono from The Great Films & Shows Volume 4 CD, I can send you a clip.
     
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Thanks for the offer! I realized last night that I had left off that CD and the 36 All-Time Favorites CD. Both are now posted.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
  3. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Yeah, that's my copy... You're right. It's the 10 song. I'll check the wax when I get home from work and let you know what it is.
     
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  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Re: Time After Time

    Anybody who has read this thread knows that there have been woefully few 45s that have impressed me -- almost none -- and the 1959 D2 45 promo for TIME AFTER TIME is totally smashed in terms of dynamics, but in terms of TONE, I think it really nails it. Here's a clip:
    https://app.box.com/s/yth5b5yp0myos5k5ah09l14zceiqedz1
    SinatraTimeAfterTime45.jpg
    That might be the best-sounding 45 we've reached thus far. @marmil needs one of these! :agree:
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
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  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Anybody?
     
  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Re: TIME AFTER TIME

    A couple of clips:

    Clip 1: https://app.box.com/s/sovr43j0dwlg4e6qgyffmjdllnzb0vhn
    First 15 seconds: 1959 D2 promo 45 -- great tone, heavily limited
    Middle 15 seconds: 1984 Japanese This is Sinatra, Volume Two LP -- similar tone, no compression
    Last 15 seconds: 1958 D5 LP - slightly colder tone (still pretty good), limited

    Clip 2: https://app.box.com/s/5e0f6g4sz485y6b7lgh4a591dtfcde7k

    In clip #2, the same segment plays four times in a row, in this order:
    1. 1996 Norberg stereo remix (from The Complete Capitol Singles CD)
    2. 1995 uncredited stereo mix (from Sinatra 80th: All the Best CD)
    3. Norberg remix again
    4. 1995 mix again

    On clip #2, listen carefully to the position of the celeste (the bell-like sound). The 1995 mix, while superior to the Norberg mix in most ways, is clearly narrowed, as the celeste moves significantly toward the center, but is at the far-left edge of the image (as it should be) in the Norberg mix.
     
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Mr. Postman delivered this little oddity today, a 10" LP which I have not yet played:
    SinatraPromoSHTV1.jpg SinatraPromo 1SHTV.jpg
     
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  8. mahanusafa02

    mahanusafa02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
  9. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Nope! Dallas Kramer and Joe "Fingers" Carr were far more deserving of a cut on the promo!!!:shrug:
     
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  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Pardon my ignorance, but had Dean done any Christmas stuff for Capitol by 1954 (or '55 or whenever that disk is from)?
     
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  11. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    You may be right. "Christmas Blues" I think was his first.
     
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  12. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    MLutthan, do you expect to review the Capitol albums No One Cares and Only the Lonely on your website eventually soon?
     
  13. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    He hasn't reviewed OTL? He owns at least 2 dozen copies of that album!!!!:laugh:
     
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  14. wvk3

    wvk3 Senior Member

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Matt,

    I cannot tell you how excited I am that you have reached the "Time After Time" session. It is one of my favorite songs of all time and one of my favorite Sinatra performances. Looking forward to some free time to listen to the samples and read your thoughts!
     
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  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Hey, thanks! It's certainly an interesting session with some odd little quirks in terms of release history.

    Sad, but true!

    Yes, they will be back up on the site at some point. (We covered them both back in, what....2009???)
     
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  16. mahanusafa02

    mahanusafa02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    That's the one, along with the two FS and two NKC tracks, and appeared on the 1954 LP, Merry Christmas to You (T 9030). I found the LP for about $4 and, I must confess, bought it only for the stuff from Dino/Frank/Nat. Maybe it's time to listen to the whole thing.
     
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  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    OK, all four songs from this session are now wrapped up on my site, on this page: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_SinglesEtc34.html

    For "Time After Time," I think that the best version is the 1984 Japanese mono This is Sinatra, Volume Two LP. (Audio clip here.) (Reminder: mono and stereo recordings were made with separate set-ups. The mono recording probably used about 10 mics [~9 mics + vocal], while the stereo recording probably used 3 mics [2 omni mics + vocal].)

    I like the Sinatra 80th* digital first-ever stereo mix, almost in spite of itself. It sounds n/r'd to me, it's panned in (narrowed), and the orchestra is presented in too dry a fashion. In spots, this "dry" stereo mix really sounds like it was recorded in a barn. Despite all of those shortcomings, it is BY FAR the best of the stereo editions. (Audio clip here.)

    *(reused on the 36 All-Time Favorites CD)

    More details on the linked page.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2015
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  18. Ronald Sarbo

    Ronald Sarbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, NY, USA
    The Capitol "Time After Time" is one instance where he did not vocally surpass the original Columbia recording. Axel's arrangement is also superior to Riddle's.
     
  19. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Aside from that, his voice in those few sessions where he was redoing the Columbia material doesn't really sound "right" to me. I have mentioned this in the past. While full and strong, Mr. S sounds IMHO as if he is rather "nasally" in his performances. In a post many years back, @Bob F mentioned that Mr. S did reschedule a session during this time, so maybe he did have a cold or something similar.
     
  20. Ronald Sarbo

    Ronald Sarbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, NY, USA
    Matt: GREAT find on that Capitol Christmas 10 inch promo....that's something I've never seen. Merry Christmas, Ron.
     
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  21. Ronald Sarbo

    Ronald Sarbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, NY, USA
    "I Believe" certainly benefits from Riddle's arrangement and Sinatra's facility with swing on Capitol. "If You Are But A Dream", "Put Your Dreams Away" and "Everybody Loves Somebody" are a toss up with the Columbia versions...a tie in my opinion.

    On "Time After Time" Paul may have hit it on the head when he says Sinatra sounds "nasally"...he is much better voice on the Columbia version.

    The Capitol "It's The Same Old Dream" is the one that is most improved when compared to the Columbia version. Sinatra's vocal here is flawless.
     
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  22. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Were these two sessions supposed to be what was ultimately the Nice & Easy album?
     
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  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Thanks, Ron, and Merry Christmas to you, too!

    By the way, I kind of got a kick out of the fact that I was up late last night making a few little revisions to the webpage for the Nov. 25, 1957 session, which includes I Believe, Everybody Loves Somebody, It's the Same Old Dream, and Time After Time, while I had TCM's broadcast of It Happened in Brooklyn on the TV, and that film, of course, contains I Believe, It's the Same Old Dream, and Time After Time. (I'd say it was Kismet, but that's another movie altogether.)
     
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  24. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    I'm probably going to be banished for this, but "It's the Same Old Dream" sounded superb on that Duophonic This Is Sinatra Vol. 2
     
  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Out! :laugh:
     
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