Michael Jackson's "Thriller" - It was Toto Album...

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by gener8tr, Feb 7, 2014.

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  1. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Now I just want to watch Growing Pains re-runs. I bet Mike Seaver was a huge Toto fan.
     
  2. Chazro

    Chazro Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Palm Bch, Fl.
    [
     
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  3. Hokeyboy

    Hokeyboy Nudnik of Dinobots

    LOL Toto :)
     
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  4. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    We kinda went over that already. You said "the first five save one" went platinum or gold. The charts show that there were two in there that didn't. That makes three gold or platinum records. One did extremely well. Record sales weren't as hard to garner then as they are now. It was possible to quietly go gold back then.

    Ed
     
  5. qwerty

    qwerty A resident of the SH_Forums.

    Not exactly true. When I was young, and quite isolated from information, I would devour every drop of ink on LP covers to learn about the music. I was particularly interested in what instruments were played and who played what. I didn't understand why there were no such credits on many LP's, as I knew albums were not one-man productions (apart from Tubular Bells, except from memory, I think there were a couple of credits given to other muso's on it).
     
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  6. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    Of course I do. Their faces.
     
  7. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    Given that the band has sold over 35 million records, that puts them above The Doors, Pearl Jam, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, Boston, Rush, Motley Crue, ZZ Top, The Carpenters, Steve Miller Band, etc (all of which except for Pearl Jam recorded their most successful music prior to Soundscan). If you're looking for a successful band, look no further than Toto.
     
  8. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, not the pole dancer.
     
  9. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    So your claim is that pole dancers can not recognize beauty? Pole dancers are beholders as well. Nice job mangling that attempted metaphor.

    However, if you're looking for an exciting band, or even a band with any personality whatsoever, look just about anywhere else.
     
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  10. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    It's also possible to go gold - or platinum - years after an album's initial release. An album can flop but eventually go gold. Look at Springsteen's "Greetings" - it bombed in 1973 but now has gone double platinum because it sold so well after Bruce eventually became famous...
     
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  11. flako

    flako Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City, USA
    Not sure about the others, but Pearl Jam has sold over 60 million records ten years ago:

    http://www.chartattack.com/news/2006/03/02/self-titled-pearl-jam-album-gets-release-date/

    But Toto at 40 million records sold are no chumps either.
     
  12. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I think any "X million sold worldwide" claims have to be taken with a major grain of salt. Even with the RIAA, a lot of sales figures are questionable - if folks try to sum up sales all over the rest of the world, I think it really turns into little more than a guessing game.

    For a lot of artists, you'll see wild variations in terms of "worldwide sales" claims. I don't trust any of them.

    Did Toto sell 40 million worldwide? I dunno - maybe. But I wouldn't trust the claims - they're too hard to formally assess...
     
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  13. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    The Toto figure I quoted from your Billboard article is 35 million worldwide, I believe. The other bands I mentioned were all U.S. figures less than 35 million, but I looked again and many were far above that in worldwide sales.

    Of the bands on the wikipedia RIAA U.S. sales list, I would guess that they surpass The Cars worldwide, and maybe a few more.
     
  14. Thom

    Thom Forum Resident

    However, that doesn't address what Nostaljack was saying (and I think you know that). Come on Honeybunch, pay attention.
     
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  15. Exile On My Street

    Exile On My Street Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    The album that charted at #50 this week sold just under 15,000. Just a guess but #98 probably sold half that.

    http://hitsdailydouble.com/building_album_chart
     
  16. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Well, the hyperbole aside, it has gotten me to take a second listen to the Toto I have. I purchased the single-disc "The Essential Collection" many years ago and ripped 8 of the tunes into iTunes so they'd be on my phone for car listening. The stuff I ripped was all the expected stuff: "Africa", "I'll Be Over You", "Georgy Porgy", "Hold The Line", "Pamela", "99", "I Won't Hold You Back", and "Rosanna". I also bought the "Isolation" LP years back for "Stranger in Town" and I've long since needle dropped that. Anyway, I took all those tunes in and here's what I came to:

    "Africa" is severely overplayed. I listened to it but it didn't excite me as it has before. Of course, it has it's charms but I'm not over the moon about it anymore.

    "I'll Be Over You" was never a favorite but it resonates more with me now than it used to. I'm older and I've been through stuff. Randy Goodrum's lyric steals the show. "As soon as forever is through, I'll be over you". Devastating line though not really put across as such by Luke. This deserved a better vocal and I think Luke could have delivered it if he'd have had another producer behind the board to get it out of him. I also think a better vocal would have easily made it a "top 5" hit.

    "Hold the Line" was always one I liked but I've fallen deeply for it now. It's textbook writing. Paich put everything in the track. It's rocks, it's got blues, and it's got R&B. Not sure Kimball ever sounded better. Luke's solo is just bananas and the band totally destroys this.

    "Pamela" is dimmed for me considerably. I used to really like it and now, not so much. Joe's voice is rather thin and it doesn't fare well against the bluster of the track. Lyrically, it's dripping in cliche. No, thanks.

    "99" is one I've loved for years and I love it now. I know what Paich was trying to do with the lyric but it's too cliche-ridden to get the job done there. Still, I couldn't care less. It's the playing that gets this over. The end vamp is just amazing. Luke's playing is tasteful and melodic and the Hungate bass solo bit is really a nice way to end this. The music tells the story better than the lyric does. The album version of this is the only one that matters.

    "I Won't Hold You Back" is a really stellar production. Again, the lyric does nothing for me but the soundscape is fantastic. Marty Paich tho! The sadness in the tune is best conveyed by the bridge. It's positively apocalyptic. Tim Schmits' chorus lead is also really nice.

    "Rosanna" grooves hard. It still does though the tune has lost some luster due to overplaying. Again, the album version of this tune is the only one that matters. The single version cuts out Luke's ending solo which is essential listening.

    "Stranger in Town" is still really good. An unusually good lyric for a Toto thing and the music tells the same story. Textbook writing. Paich's vocal is perfect for the tune and Fergie's ad-lib screaming at the end is a nice touch too. The video for it is also really cool.

    -----

    All in all, an interesting experiment. I get the unadulterated love Honeybunches feels for Toto. We're all only arguing about the endless hyperbole that's surfaced as a result of it. For my part, I just don't share the same love and prefer to look at them in realistic terms rather than hyperbolic ones. Here is a bunch of guys who can play their faces off and they write some decent tunes. They could have been more resonant had they been more musically consistent and if they'd had decent vocalists the whole time.

    Ed
     
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  17. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    I've never contemplated "...Over You" needing to have a better vocal. Interesting.

    I do remember hearing an extended coda to "Rosanna" on the radio way back when (kind of like Chicago's "...Sorry" when the "Get Away" part would get played - a little bonus treat)
     
  18. Thom

    Thom Forum Resident

    Nice recap. What was your opinion of "Georgy Porgy"? That's still one of my top 3 or 4 Toto songs. I also really like "Make Believe", which didn't make your 'top 8'... don't care for it, or just not one you listen to much?
    The Toto songs that are constants on my iPod are exactly like yours, but plus "Make Believe" and minus "Stranger In Town", which after reading your review I'll have a listen to today.
     
  19. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    To the victor goes the spoils. Toto has endured for 35 years, and has reaped the fruits of their labors. Same as any act who has endured for a long period of time. They release new material and reap the rewards of being an actively touring and recording band. To only focus on a short period of time in the band's career is missing the point of what it is to be a band who devotes their career to music.
     
  20. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I agree. Lukather should be comfortable and confident, not only about his talents as a guitarist, but with his commercial success both as a studio musician and as a member of Toto. There really is no need for him to be so defensive - some people don't like Toto; it's OK, Steve, many do.
     
  21. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    His emotion is more about the average critic going out of his way to not give the band credit and respect for what they have accomplished as a band and as individual session musicians. I wouldn't expect him to be upset about Joe Blow not digging Toto record x.
     
  22. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Yes, that's what I meant. The average Joe Blow actually does like Toto - that's why they have sold so many records. He should take pride in that, and shouldn't be so troubled that some rock critics don't "respect" his band.
     
  23. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    If he really was troubled, then he would have done a "What's the Frequency Kenneth?" to a critic or interviewer a long time ago. In the interview, he was just getting amped about his own work like he gets amped to play guitar on stage. He is probably most irritated that he has to travel so far from home to play to bigger crowds than he gets in the United States.

    If U. S. critics could have helped Toto's fortunes in the United States by not going out of their way to acknowledge the band's talents, then he should fight for the band's success by complaining about critics. I don't see the problem if he feels that the band and his deceased bandmate don't get a fair shake from the average critic, who might be more concerned with more lightweight music than what Toto performs. If Lukather really believes that his music is deep and timeless, then he should complain about critics who don't acknowledge that.
     
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  24. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    In other words, they are way past their "sell by" date?
     
  25. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    No, Toto winning is a yearly undertaking.
     
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