Black Sabbath Deluxe Editions January 22, 2016

my issue with the language thrown around in this thread is that it inevitably leads to people making claims like these are entirely new tape transfers made from original tapes residing in country X exclusively for this release. given that so much import here is placed on provenance (as it should be), just using words like "new" without qualification doesn't suit the forum.

 

I'm refusing delivery-

You guys can suck the life out of anything........

 

Has there ever been official claim made about sources for the 2012 transfers (not that they've been 100% truthful in the past)? Wicked World doesn't seem to have been a part of it as the vinyl issue of the 2012 transfers used the crappy UK source for that track. And now it looks like the 2016 CD has used even a different transfer (if not different tape) to the HDtracks. It seems it was mastered outside of the 2012 project and dropped in to replace. "Evil Woman". It's a shame EW wasn't included in the HDtracks. I don't mean instead of WW, which I greatly prefer, but we know EW was mastered during the 2012 masterings. Shame they just left it out. I think there's still some weirdness between the US and UK releases continuing.

I just now noticed while looking on discogs that the 2012 box has Live at Last. That wasn't made available on HDtracks, so I wonder what the source was for that. I think one of the issues with pinning down Sabbath sources is the loose truth given to us and the inconstancies of the issues. Even when these albums are re-issued, there's always some odd difference(s). Like the first two albums in the Castle min-LP replica box being totally different masterings (and maybe transfers - I forget what I determined) than the '96, with the other albums being either volume altered '96 or digitally identical to the '96. There are numerous other examples.

 

It's really not that complicated if people take time to go through the whole thread.

 

Delivery of what? All 3 2016 CDs? What were you hoping to get from them and what have you decided is the problem? There are almost never perfect releases, especially across a whole campaign. So if that's what you were hoping, then these aren't it. Though, they still might be worthwhile purchases depending on what you had previously and what your expectations were.

If that's how you see things, you really should put me on ignore. I'm a major buzzkill of blissful ignorance.

 

Compared to the original UK Vertigo LP and the Japan 1987 CD, the new version sounds a little bit too bright for my taste.

 

Paranoid? Yeah, it's kinda bright. But I find the 1st press UK LP to be too dull. I've been playing around with equing the HDtracks but haven't settled on anything yet. Same for Wicked World. I think the HDtracks is the best source, but needs EQd.

However, as far as easily found/affordable CDs of Paranoid go, I think the 2016 is the best even without EQing. I find it clearly better than the WB, '96, Black Box and '09. I'm really not much of a fan of the '86 as I think it's much too dull, so that only leaves the Intercord and Japan as CDs with possibly better sound. Both of those have their own issues, so I'd have a hard time suggesting them given their cost.

 

Interesting in the liner notes the remastering credits list the 2009 reissue as opposed to the 2012

 

I think they just copied the 2009 booklets.

 

I'm not sure if this is a cd only thread or not. However I just listened to LP 1 of Past Lives & compared it to a UK pressing of Live at Last. I found them very similar with Live at Last being a big more bright (but not necessarily in a bad way). Not sure which I prefer. To my ears not a huge difference. Then again the source isn't the best to begin with. Oddly Past Lives cuts the Intro present on Live at Last.

 

The cut intro on Live At Last first happened on the Castle remaster in '96.

I always figured the Past Lives CD used that CD as a source.

 

Delay the left channel by 1.5 samples (2 if your software can't do half samples) before collapsing to mono and it sounds fine. Luckily the error amount stays the same throughout the track. 1.5 samples is pretty minor, so it's not really an issue unless listening in mono.

"Evil Woman" has the same issues on the 2009 and SACD. I think these issues are on the master now.

 

Most of it is a copy but not that part...they have a section for 2012 and a section for 2009 and they put the mastering info in 2009. Since they added the 2012 info it's odd they didn't put the mastering info there.

Although the hype sticker on the packaging makes it clear the albums are remasters from 2012.

 

Listening to the s/t bonus LP. Good bonus stuff that I hadn't listened to probably since the 2009 Deluxe CD came out. Some of the sonics are a little dead but then I guess all of this stuff is digitally sourced so stuff that didn't even get a final mix is bound to sound a little lifeless. It comes alive pretty well with some volume. I might compare to the Deluxe CD at some point.

One real letdown is that the original "Evil Woman" mono mix w/ horns still hasn't been included. It's been ripped from an acetate and is out there in circulation. It is just AWESOME! The stereo mix w/ horns sounds really unfinished so I don't know why they bothered including it. I'd actually say the mono mix of "Evil Woman" w/ the horns beats even the final stereo mix as released on the debut single and debut UK LP.

 

I work with professional azimuth correction tools to fix such issues - but thank you very much for the advice.
I don't care if the dropouts of "Evil Woman" are on the master tape or not. I am sure there are backup copies out there - otherwise they would have the chance to source the track without any flaws from an earlier CD. Just my opinion.

 

What program? I use izotope and it's azimuth control simply adjusts sample offset and balances out gain. It can adjust by fractions of a sample, but that's a destructive process. I usually prefer just deleting whole samples from one channel as it has no effect on the actual audio.

 

This one, but an older version:

http://www.stereotool.com/?1424627200

Usually it was created for internet radio broadcast. I disable all stuff and use the azimuth correction only. Works fantastic and I did it on many tape transfers I did in the past.

 

for SBS, is this the pressing to which you are referring:

http://www.discogs.com/Black-Sabbath-Sabbath-Bloody-Sabbath/release/3080199

 

That looks like it to me.

Here is Sabbath Bloody Sabbath Rhino released August 9, 2011:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055HVDZO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00

The Volume 4 Rhino released August 9, 2011 Amazon listing mentions "This reissue is printed on 180-gram vinyl - lacquers cut from the original analog tapes by Chris Bellman at Bernie Grundman Mastering - all original packaging replicated."
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055HVDZ4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00

About $16 each.

 

Rhino never used the original UK tapes for the LP reissues.

 

Yes, I also suspected that. I am sure they used the US masters.

 

Thanks. I'll check it out. Looks interesting.

 

The track does sound quite good on the Castle '86. I'll have to check through the older CDs and see where the tape damage first popped up.

Since this was released as a single, you'd think there would be another good tape of the song. Maybe even lower gen than on the album master.

 

Zero guarantee that masters for some albums aren't in the US.

Sabotage is certainly an example. The original US and UK vinyl was mastered at Sterling (different cuts though).

 

That is the one. The Rhino didn't have the gatefold the way the NEMS reissue did. No matter. The Rhino offers a nice thick cardboard stock cover and is a great pressing overall. The sound is stellar and is a nice alternative if you don't already own an original.