Is rock out of the conversation?

Did you actually listen to the album?

 

It just seems like rock isn't as part of the conversation anymore because the music industry is going though a grueling transformation and record labels aren't able to put in the time and money to craft the 'bigger than life' persona like they were able to in the past. Labels are still trying to figure out how to stay alive and they just can't do today what they used to do for bands. There are still lots of guitar, bass and drums based bands out there, but it's a different sound now. It's evolved.

However it is kind of interesting to look at those sales graphs and you can see how rock sort of 'fell out of the conversation' along with declining CD sales starting right at 1999.

The other thing to think about, is music partly reflects the technological abilities of the time. Rock was enormous in the 70's because it was the only real way to make music. You had to use guitar, bass and drums and be an incredible singer. Sure, there were analog synths being made but it was 'too new,' expensive and 'uncool.' Guitar based music was the only real option.

Rock changed a bit in the 80's to reflect new technologies, and you could hear it in the music. Synthesizers were becoming more popular and making their way into teenager's homes. Studio technology was changing as well and had that super wet, heavily processed reverb heavy sound.

Music of today also reflects today's technologies and how much access we have to those technologies. Today, everyone has a laptop or an ipad. Kids today don't really even watch TV anymore, they just watch youtube. Smart phones and social media have permeated into our consciousness, etc. We're very 'tech heavy,' and I think the fact that EDM has grown in popularity is a reflection of this. It no longer seems "lame" to listen to electronic music (as it used to in the 90's) since so many of us live our lives in front of a laptop.

I still manage to find great 'rock' bands, though it might just be that 'rock' just isn't descriptive enough for these bands anymore.

I almost threw up a little in my mouth when I read "Hipster vegan indie rock" earlier in the thread.

 

Yes. Three quarters of it, or thereabouts (I have Tidal, so it was kinda in my face on the new albums list - it took ages for them to move it down to make way for newer releases).

 

Well one difference between generations is that we now have a generation going past 20 years now who have never been taught to "grow up" musically. It was hardly like kids who liked Tiffany and Debbie Gibson in 1988 were conditioned within four years that their music was cheesy and embarassing. We now have a generation who grew up on Spice Girls and unironically like them still and don't see it as a guilty pleasure the way people my age will take the cheesy pop music of our youth as a guilty pleasure. This is a generation who was taught that Britney Spears was a great talent, even though she never matured as an artist, never sang live, relies on autotune, and even at 35 is still a bubblegum star and was never given the "shame" for being a teen star the way Gibson and Tiffany were shunned the moments they became drinking age.

I cannot begin to drill it in heads enough that I freaking love Courtney Barnett, Father John Misty, Last Shadow Puppets, Spoon and some of the others you mentioned... but I am aware we're in the minority compared to those who unashamedly love Taylor Swift and don't see her as a guilty pleasure or find irony in enjoying her music.

 

Did you enjoy what you heard?

 

Far, far from it. But old enough to know how to loosen up and have a little fun with language in the service of making a point.

 

That's a little like saying [name an artist here that you don't particularly like] rules. It doesn't make a point to someone who's not into it.

 

No. It wasn't my cup of tea at all.

 

It wasn't mine either.

However, I usually judge by my ears and not the number of songwriters someone used.

 

Same, but what I said earlier was in answer to the idea that she's evolved. Her voice hasn't changed - so that hasn't evolved, and with that many song writers, I wouldn't say she's evolved as a writer either.

 

Fair enough. I actually think the album is an evolution, as others have stated. Going on what I've heard in the past from her versus this album, I get that general feeling. However, that doesn't mean I like the album. I might give it another listen though, with that in mind.

As for writing, not all singers are good songwriters - but if they can surround themselves by good talent, they can still get out what they are trying to say.

 

Listen to "Baby Boy" and listen "Daddy Lessons" afterwards. She's no longer recording teeny bopper tunes that appeal to a younger demographic. The subject matter is more mature and introspective.

I've voiced my distaste for her music countless times but I wouldn't go as far as to say that she hasn't evolved as a artist. Anyone with ears should be able to notice the growth of her music, both stylistically and lyrically.

 

Right. People are projecting Britney Spears' reality onto Beyonce. Britney has hardly matured from her days in a schoolgirl outfit, but Beyonce has truly worked overtime to grow up musically.

 

And so it should grow, with that many writers. Like I said, it's not for me. But if that many writers had ballsed it up, then what hope would she have? I just found it ridiculous that it was being hailed as a highly personal album, when it was written by that many people. I see Beyonce as more of a marketing machine than anything else. It doesn't come off a genuine in the slightest to me. That's not what art is about imo.

 

I trust that you'll enjoy your upcoming experience at Red Lobster.

 

Well, nobody is mistaking Beyonce for Kate Bush or Bjork, but I do think she has a vision and direction which separates her from many of her peers. True she is extremely songwriter/producer driven, but at least it seems like she has a vision with what she wants to do, which is different than someone like Spears who did a "making of" documentary of one of her albums that even showed her literally showing up in the studio to deliver lines for five minutes. Beyonce seems to be at the helm and knows what direction she wants to go and who she wants to work with. No different than someone like Donna Summer or Madonna before her who might've not been a producer and usually was a co-writer of her songs, but yet each album had its own identity and direction as opposed to just faceless disposable albums.

 

How do you know there wasn't any artistic input from Beyonce on her latest album?

 

I don't think Beyonce's material is or will ever be as well known as Madonna's. I don't much rate Rihanna either, but Beyonce isn't selling anywhere near the amount she is, despite the aggressive marketing. List of best-selling music artists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia »

 

There was - on some tunes. But that doesn't take away how many other people it took to write it. To call it highly personal is a stretch to say the least.

 

At Currents is not entirely electronic as I saw Tame Impala play their better 2 well known songs off of that album last year on Later with Jools Holland and Kevin Parker is playing his guitar. I would think that performance is on YouTube like most other ones on Jools Holland, if you want to search it out. Certainly, most of the songs on Currents have a larger electronic sound, but it is not like Parker left his guitar at home. Also when you get down to it, 'Currents' really shares a similar DNA to 'Innerspeaker' & 'Lonerism', as they all are Psychedelic Music at the core. Just my take on it. What Parker plans to do next, who knows, but I am excited to find out.

I was disappointed when Radiohead minimialized the Guitars after 'OKC' , but it was also more that the songs on that album are brilliant(my favorite album of all time), and just hard to top, but they have put out some very good songs if not great albums post 2000(although I enjoy 'In Rainbows' except for the 'Wierd Fishes' song), and 'A Moon Shaped Pool' is a style of music that I am enjoying much more(Johnny Greenwood's influence?), than the electronic blips and beeps they put out like the awful title track to 'Kid A'(WTF is that?), 3 of the songs on 'HTTT' and all those B-Sides from 'Amnesiac' and 'HTTT', along with the Yorke's ' The Eraser' solo album.

 

Beyonce is more like Cher than Madonna. Look at her resume, it's not all that impressive.
She has a low list of hits, hasn't sold that many records and is far from a critical darling.
But for whatever reason she is already viewed as a icon and bigger than life figure in Pop culture.

@Bowieboy @ralphb Why?

 

I can't remember which one I heard first now, Innerspeaker or Lonerism, but when I did, I know straight away I wanted to hear the other album. But, if I'd have heard Currents first, I wouldn't have felt any great urge to listen to, or buy Innerspeaker or Lonerism. I just found that one okay. But the previous two albums, I thought were superb.

 

I dunno. Cher had a few decent albums there, but she's about the worst case of an album artist as the vast majority of her albums are the "single plus nine filler" types. Her later albums got a little better but most of Cher's albums were the type that you don't need if you have a decent hits collection unless you are an absolute die-hard who must own everything.

I would say critics seem to adore Beyonce, to a ridiculous level actually. Lemonade got a five-star review from Rolling Stone and I've seen many critics put it on their mid-year best lists.

 

I don't have the data at hand for the last couple of years, but up to, and including 2014, rock was by far the biggest selling genre.

Music sales by genre in the U.S. 2014 | Statistic »

 

Is rock out of the conversation?

No, rock will always be a part of the conversation here at the SH Music Forums. In fact, I would not be surprised if this forum becomes known in another 15 or 20 years as "Steve Hoffman's Rock Music Forums" or "Steve Hoffman's Classic Rock Music Forums".

There will be these 80 year old who can never forget that time they saw the explosive Who, thunderous Zeppelin, and swaggering Stones blow their damn minds. They will be here to tell you about it.