Rolling Stones in Mono - 2016 - Content Discussion Only (Mixes, Tracks, etc.)*

Ok. Appreciated. I've never looked into "2002 restoration" discussions. That said, did they make both raw DSD and hi-res PCM back in 2002? I ask because aren't there going to be 2016 hi-res PCM downloads? Wondering if those will be DSD conversions or if the mastering chain was PCM all the way? Of course, the next curiosity is whether or not our 2016 redbook are DSD to PCM or PCM all the way? Or a mixed bag!?

Hope I'm not too far off-topic. Much appreciated.

 

The flat transfers were apparently made to multiple formats. Presumably the DSD ones were used for the "restorations", but it isn't clear.

The existing PCM downloads are conversions from DSD, presumably right from the SACD masters. HDtracks has notes.

 

It seems more like a completely different effect than just a pronounced one. It starts much earlier and goes on until the end of the track, while it's just a short and slight on the London cd and vinyl. Also the remaster has a little bit longer fade than the London cd. The laughter goes on longer until fading out completely, but with the volume tremolo (which London doesn't have at that point). It's hard to believe that ABKCO just added it on the remaster. I didn't compare if the mix is the same otherwise, but that ending sure is a major difference.

 

It is a good question, because ABKCO officially claimed at one point (and not yet walked it back) that both DSD and PCM hi-res downloads of the new mono box will be available for sale.

I realize the hi-res vs. redbook horse is dead, but to anyone who has asked for my opinion - I offer that I think redbook has offered pretty much all that it can to us from these years. If I was gonna part with $200+ (and I'm not), it would be for 24-bit.

 

As far as I can tell, the mixes are otherwise identical. I have them lined up left and right now, and I'm not hearing any differences.

I don't think the effect starts any earlier on the SACD, it's just more pronounced, thus you notice it earlier.

The fade on the SACD is only about a second longer, and there's not really much to speak of in that section; it's mostly just tape hiss. The fades are essentially the same.

The click just before the laughing is closer to center on the London CD than on the SACD (where it is more to the left), but otherwise can't see or hear any evidence or narrowing.

Still a mystery on this end.

 

Indeed they do, even mentioning the ATR-102 cited in that recent Billboard article.

One good question would be: WAS there such a thing as DSD-5.6 back when this was first done? Can't find a DSD timeline anywhere, but at least one article I managed to find said that it was in use professionally before any SACDs even got to market (supposedly in 1999).

 

At the time circa 2002 when the "restorations" were made, you couldn't use NR with native DSD, it didn't exist (not sure it is possible even now), so, at least for the tracks with NR, they had to be converted to PCM, then back to DSD for the SACDs. Unless they made direct Hi-Res PCM transfers and used them for the NR'd tracks.
What's more, I seem to remember that the Redbook CDs were converted from the DSD masters, so that would hypothetically mean some tracks on CD are: Analogue tape > DSD transfer > PCM (NR) > (probable analogue mastering stage) > DSD (final masters) > PCM (Redbook).

 

It wouldn't surprise me if there were more steps involved. I.e., the narrowing on many tracks.

 

God. That's the problem when mastering from DSD transfers...

 

I think I read that NR'd portions were edited back into the original DSD versions to minimalise any loss. Were any tracks NR'd from start to finish?

 

This is what was claimed:

PAR: Did you use much noise reduction?

BL: Very little. When there were spots that required its use, if it was possible in the analog world, I would do it there. If not, we went to the high resolution PCM world. If neither sounded that great, we just let the noise be. The only PCM in the whole series are those parts that were really necessary. Each corrected part was meticulously excerpted and edited back into the DSD master. One song had some significant sibilance problems, and I think 23 individual de-essed attacks of a word were edited back in by hand. A true pain in the neck, especially on the Sonoma DSD Workstation, but it kept the ultimate
quality we were striving for.

Bob Ludwig "Stones CDs" Interview »

I'd argue "ultimate quality" wouldn't involve noise reduction.

Offhand I can't think of anything that has NR from start to finish. Some songs do have it in several sections, however (Cool, Calm & Collected, Miss Amanda Jones, etc).

 

When Steve Hoffman and Kevin Gray begin pouring on the NR, then I'll be an advocate.

Anyhow, the good news is that Let It Bleed, for example, turned out pretty good back in 2002. Hoping for some pleasant surprises this time around.

 

For the most part. But the intro to Gimme Shelter has NR.

 

Yes, Flowers will be required for the true mono mixes of 'Ruby Tuesday' and 'Let's Spend The Night Together' (not included in the 2002 set) along with the mono mixes of its four exclusive tracks (Ride On, Baby, Sitting On A Fence, My Girl and the short version of Out of Time).

This set will also include the first Western CD release of the Rolling Stones No.2 (which will include 'I Can't Be Satisfied' in mono unlike the 2002 series) and 'You Better Move On' (December's Children).

 

"Let's Spend the Night Together" is true mono on the 2002 singles collection.

 

Do you mean North American when you say Western? Please explain how "You Better Move On" is the first "Western CD release".
As noted in the above post by S.P. Honeybunch, "Let's Spend The Night Together" is the true mono mix on the 2002 Singles Collection.
Edit: Also there is no dedicated mono mix for "I Can't Be Satisfied". It's a fold of the stereo mix.

 

Correct. The mono box uses a fold-down of the (stereo) digital transfer used in 2002. The only difference is a slight change in level/EQ.

 

I meant first western CD release for the No.2 album, not 'You Better Move On', which of course is included on December's Children and the Singles 1963-65 set.

Dedicated or fold, those two tracks will be mono on this set as opposed to the 2002 series.

I must be mistaken about Let's Spend the Night Together.

 

And. . . this is why I avoid selling old albums, even when I think I've duplicated all their content. I'll dig this one out tonight and do a needledrop of this unique(?) mix.

 

Let me get this straight and please correct me if I'm wrong.

So, are all the fold-downs from the 2002 transfers? Nothing is vintage, circa 1960s?

 

Confessin' The Blues is likely a fold down from a mono tape. Presumably because there's tape drag at the start of the 2002 stereo transfer.

But most of the fold downs I've checked have come from the 2002 stereo transfers. From a practical standpoint, no good reason not to. I do question the excitement over fold downs in any form though.

 

Both tracks are in mono on the 2002. "You Better Move On" has nver been stereo.

 

Thanks

Fold downs don't excite me at all. That being said I'm less excited about this release than I was when it was initially announced last month.

 

I think I heard a little bit longer laughter on the remaster, although the volume on my headphones was very high, but I have to check it again. However, a mystery it is. Has this song appeared on any other albums? It sure is not any of their greatest hits, but I'm curious if this variation exists elsewhere.

 

Much more excitement for the 1965-67 mono mixes that have never made it to a digital format and are extremely rare, damaged, and expensive on old vinyl.