King Crimson 2009 re-issues CD / DVD stereo/5.1 all inclusive thread (Part 4)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Jun 14, 2013.

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  1. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Wow. So many pages! Will discover later, but for now....

    I've enjoyed the Jethro Tull/Steve Wilson CDs (stereo remix), so I thought I'd check out King Crimson. Only familiar with debut album. Is the 40th anniversary series a good choice to hear these albums (on CD) up through Red?
     
  2. In my opinion you can't go wrong with the King Crimson Steven Wilson mixes. I suggest picking up the cd/dvd-a sets. However,I prefer the 30th anniversary mix for USA. Also keep in mind that the Red 40th anniversary edition does not contain a Steven Wilson remix. (His mix for Red is only available in the Road to Red box). My introduction to KC three years ago was through these sets. I have them all as well as the box sets for Court, Starless, Larks and Red. I'm hooked.
     
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  3. Sandinista

    Sandinista Forum Resident

    There's prob 100 members here who know more about this than I do but yes, good choice - he often (always?) includes the original mix so it's win-win. I know some consider his KC remixes definitive - I haven't spent enough time with the original mixes to have an informed opinion but the 40th anniv series remixes are my go to.
     
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  4. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Hm. So, the 40th anniversary series in the US market are CD/DVD-A and the stereo mix of the original album tracks is different than the re-mix on the 30th? Is the overall sound quality considered better on one or the other?



    Right, so Red CD should be the original mix but well mastered.


    I'm not sure if I'll ever spin the DVD-A discs, but maybe at some point that data can be ripped or else I could buy a used player on the cheap.
     
  5. Runicen

    Runicen Forum Resident

    If you have a PC that can be used to this end, I highly recommend looking into software to rip audio from the DVDs in these packages. You'll end up with both the SW remix (except for Red) and a hi-def version of the 30th Anniversary remaster of the original mix. Can't go wrong with that setup!

    But, if you are limited to the CD realm, the new releases are all phenomenal. SW has, as far as my ears can detect, kept to the brief of remaining sympathetic to the original mix while adding greater clarity and separation to the instruments in play. You get a lot more detail out of his versions than in the originals IMO.
     
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  6. Mbe

    Mbe Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
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  7. Nycademon

    Nycademon Forum Resident

    That's not correct. His 5.1 mix for Red is on the 40th Anniversary Edition. The stereo mix is available on a separate CD:

    https://www.discogs.com/King-Crimson-Red/release/5460091
     
  8. Mbe

    Mbe Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I don’t have the 2 x CD edition of Red so wasn’t 100% sure, also comments regarding the
    UK edition suggest the discs were / are labelled incorrectly, disc 1 being disc 2 and vice versa.
     
  9. albertop

    albertop Forum Resident

    I think they were swapped but more recent releases are correct. I own a UK disc and it's labelled correctly.
     
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  10. Pinstripedclips

    Pinstripedclips Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    Madness! :wtf:

    A digital reverb, wonky levelled Epitaph, for example, is far from definitive! :tsk:
     
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  11. Runicen

    Runicen Forum Resident

    Ah, Christ! You're gonna make me put on my serious glasses and A/B the two versions, aren't you? :winkgrin:
     
  12. Pinstripedclips

    Pinstripedclips Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    Then there's the missing mellotron overdubs as well. :doh:
     
  13. xj32

    xj32 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Racine, WI
    Absolutely the definitive version to my ears!

    Just like Wilson did with "Aqualung" the way he added definition, clarity and power to the drums on the new mix of Court is awesome. To pigeon hole digital reverb as being bad in the 2000's is simply hyperbole. Just another opinion.
     
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  14. Pinstripedclips

    Pinstripedclips Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    Supposed definition and clarity, I'd say things sound more separated, at the expense of music/sound/feel.

    The obvious change in reverb takes away some of the distinctive sound and feel of the album. Also, the messy levels, which actually makes it more muddy, and missing overdubs kills some of what was previously goosebump moments. Also, it's very very slight, but if I recall some of the music is slightly out of sync.

    Definite = removing some Ian McDonald overdubs etc etc?

    Yeah, sure.

    The crescendo on the remix of Epitaph compared to the original mix, say's it all. The remix is a mess the original mix is a definitive, goosebump inducing moment on an album that's reputation was built, in part, on the very things the remix has changed or removed altogether.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  15. tonewheeltom

    tonewheeltom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vineland, NJ
    I listen to both. I also listen to the 5.1 mix. Whatever your criticisms of Fripp and Wilson's stereo remix, isn't the surround mix a blast to listen to?
     
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  16. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    It is worth noting that the remixes are Wilson's and Fripp's. Nothing's missing (unless unavailable on the multis) inasmuch as Fripp consciously decided not to mix it in.
     
  17. albertop

    albertop Forum Resident

    I've just listened to both again (original and stereo remix) and I couldn't find anything missing in the remix. If there is something missing, I haven't noticed it (there is something missing in Lizard too, and I prefer the new mixing choices).

    The digital reverb on the vocals is rather present starting from 0:43, and I am totally fine with it, but I understand the appreciation for the original mix. They sound both great to me. It's a matter of taste I guess.

    Between 2:04 and 2:35, and then in the crescendo, between 3:50 and 4:03, that's where the remix is slightly different. Especially in the crescendo (3:50 to 4:03), I understand why one can prefer the original mix.

    From 4:03 on, the remix is a total winner to me. The march and the finale are so powerful in this new version, it's like having KC in my living room. I just love it and rarely listen to the original (unless someone posts about it :D).
     
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  18. Lucidae

    Lucidae AAD

    Location:
    Australia
    I held onto the original EG discs for ages until upgrading to the 30th ann. editions. I'm happy with the way these sound, very tastefully mastered.
     
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  19. Pinstripedclips

    Pinstripedclips Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    This string of convo was triggered by a comment about the remix being "definitive". That is the album as released by King Crimson in 1969, not some chopped and changed 21st century frankenstein (man) from decades later.

    The remix is, thankfully, just an alternative.

    ...

    Where to begin with the remix of Poseidon!? Phewee. :doh:
     
  20. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Switzerland
    People tend to differ on what they mean by definitive. For sure the SW mixes are authoritative, because the author (in this case, Fripp) conferred his authority upon them. I'd usually say that the definitive mix of an album is the form in which it was first (widely) received, so I agree that you'd tend to use that term for the original mix. The exception is where something happens that changes permanently what we mean by an album: you could argue (but maybe not for long) about whether the US or UK versions of the Beatles catalogue are definitive. In the case of Yes, however, no question remains, since the new versions are actually described on the cover as Definitive. It's pretty much in the hands of the artist what they choose to denote as definitive, and I'm not sure where that leaves us with KC because Fripp himself may regard the latest versions as definitive.
     
  21. Pinstripedclips

    Pinstripedclips Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    Fripp alone is not the King Cimson of 1969 though so even authoratative is debatable. He obviously has the full legal right though.

    What he deemed definitive could be taken from the fact that the original mix was included with the remix (kudos to him for doing so) and that the original mix was used for the vinyl release of ITCotCK. Were the original mixes used for the other vinyl releases?

    ...

    Macca decides to oversee the remixing of the entire Beatles catalog with someone. No matter what the results are of these remixes, they are neither definitive or fully authoratative no matter what it say's on the album covers. :D

    ...

    King Crimson 40th anniversary releases - A revisionists guide to King Crimson through the ears of Steven Wilson. :laugh:
     
  22. Runicen

    Runicen Forum Resident

    The idea that you can be "revisionist" seems to be isolated to the rock world though. Nobody changed the lyrics or the songs - just the arrangements by way of the mix and production. There's plenty of (warranted) debate among orchestral music fans about which composer stayed true to the original composition or which ensemble played it best. By comparison, changing a reverb level is small potatoes! :winkgrin:
     
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  23. Billy Infinity

    Billy Infinity Beloved aunt

    Location:
    US
    Steven Wilson's King Crimson remixes are a labor of love from a longtime fan - Wilson has worked closely with Fripp for all the remixes, and in my opinion they are all fantastic. They've reignited my love for that band.
     
  24. Pinstripedclips

    Pinstripedclips Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    If only it were just a change in reverb levels. :p
     
  25. rontoon

    rontoon Animaniac

    Location:
    Highland Park, USA
    Really? Tell that to George Lucas.
     
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