100,000 Years is a great tune, love the bassline, cool guitar fills. As far as the Alive! version goes, if I could change anything on the whole album, I would shave off a bit of the drum solo. I agree with GodShifter, I prefer the studio version.
The debut album as we know was initially released with the 9 tracks (no Kissin' Time). Then when they added Kissin' Time the whole album was remixed. Does anyone have the first pressing without Kissin' Time and if so is there a noticeable difference in the mix?
As a bass player myself, I enjoy Gene's playing, but he's always been a songwriter first and an instrumentalist second. That said, is lack of technical ability is more than compensated by his knack for coming up with simple catchy bass lines/hooks.
I wish I lived in your vicinity, because it would be a blast to get together and listen to stories of your many concert experiences! Needless to say, I'm looking forward to hearing anecdotes about the various tours and how the performances stack up. Since we're on the 1st album, can you share with us what you can remember from the first one or two times you saw them? What was your impression? How were they received by the audience? Did the image and stage show overpower the music (for either you or the crowd?). Did you already know the tunes when you saw them? Please share whatever you can from those initial shows. I'm very interested in whatever you can share. I've actually only known one other person who saw them very early in their career, and that person first saw them on the HTH tour.
Yep, it's a great song and to me it has one of the weirdest feels of any song they've done. I'd agree with Godshifter in that there's definitely some kooky funk-like stuff going on in the underbelly of this track. It's a Gene showcase though, the riff is all bass, with rhythm and lead guitars as support, but it's cleverly done. Great band performance all-round though and a case has to be made for Paul as one of the great rock vocalists of all-time. Lyrically ...... well, I struggled with Deuce, but I'm pretty sure Paul is sayin' to his chick that he's a dude. I'm just about to ooh yeah !
I simultaneously think 100,000 Years is a really good song and wouldn't bother putting on any compilation I put together. Listening to it right now and enjoying it, another song where everybody shines.
Just gotta say that I'm loving this thread. Over the past couple of years I've re-discovered how much KISS, both the band and their music has stayed with me since I was a kid. They were my first musical obsession, the band that quite simply blew the doors open to my discovery of music and how it can become a part of your being. Though at times they went off my radar for whatever reason, I've realized I've never lost it, they're my Rock n Roll Ground Zero. It's an awesome feeling !
I like "100,000 Years" (it's a long time to take indeed), great tune really. It's groovy and got funky bass with nice guitar fills. I think that I prefer the studio-version of the song, but I have always liked it on any live-album. The drum-solo in concert-setting in the song, fits nicely but sometimes you just kinda think the solo lasts too long. The debut-album is really strong effort from Kiss and it also sounds very good even with todays ears. I also have been on and off relationship with Kiss (always fan but some times they were not my main priority of interest), but now thinking it's one of the few bands that have stayed with me so long. Yep, great thread
I love Ace's lead riffs - melodic, phrased well- simple but feels great where they sit. Big dynamics w Paul's vocals too- everything is arranged well and always feels exciting- and it's ok that it kinda drags out some.. its part of the vibe of the song (isn't it called 100,000 years?). I'm pretty sure a drum solo was important to the show and the individual character personas too. Cool thread btw!
BLACK DIAMOND 1974 (Stanley) 5:12 The studio version begins with Stanley playing an acoustic intro and then Peter clicks his sticks and Paul yells,“hit it!” At that point, Peter Criss takes over on the lead vocal while Simmons and Stanley provide the backing vocals. From the 1974 debut, “Black Diamond” is probably the most ambitious piece of music on the entire album. It incorporates a distinct chorus, deft backing vocals, and an almost manic vocal by Criss. On Alive he’s virtually screaming at some points. I love the little bass slides that Simmons does on the song as well. He's basically using the upper portion of the E string and running his finger up and down very quickly without picking the note. It's gives some emphasis to the verses, IMO. The differences of the Alive version and the studio version are not that different other than the Alive version is faster and ends with the pyrotechnics whereas the studio version’s end sounds like it got stuck in the La Brea tarpits due to some studio trickery by producers Kenny Kerner and Richie Wise. “Black Diamond” incorporates several searing solos from Frehley that are broken up by the backing vocals. At 2:37 Ace Frehley begins a tortured ascending solo that last until 3:08 and then the band begins the droning emphasis which lasts for about two minutes total (and is it frankly quite grating). But you know what? I bet Melvins and other drone like bands took some influence from that sequence. Stanley states the song was written as it is but it didn’t have the central riff until Simmons came up with it, but he states, “that’s not writing a song”. As a younger kid, I always pondered what the lyrics were about I came to the conclusion that it was about a prostitute that was ruled over by a vicious pimp and unsympathetic “johns”. Maybe that’s what the song is about, I don’t know. As I mentioned earlier in the thread that the song “Deuce” is one of KISS’s most covered songs, so is “Black Diamond”. At least 7 different groups have covered the song on various studio albums or tribute compilations. Probably the most famous is The Replacement’s version that appears on Let It Be. Other bands such as Bathory, Smashing Pumpkins, and Pearl Jam have covered it as well. In the case of Smashing Pumpkins and Pearl Jam they had their respective drummers sing it. Even when it’s performed today by KISS, drummer Eric Singer is the vocalist. Eric Carr sang it, too, when he was in the band. I definitely love “Black Diamond” but the Alive version absolutely slays the studio version. There’s just so much more energy and angst with the live version and it’s got a killer climax unlike the studio cut. The demo actually sounds better than the studio version thanks to Eddie Kramer. Why oh why didn’t they use him instead of Kerner and Wise? I’ll never understand that. “Black Diamond” was the closing song for KISS for many years complete the flash pots going off and Peter Criss’s drum platform elevating. Taking a cue from Pete Townshend, Paul Stanley would take an old beater guitar and smash it onstage, usually timing the hits to the flash pots going off. Each time I saw them in 1979, 1983, and 1984 he did this. After smashing the guitar, he’d throw the pieces out in the audience which often caused a melee.
This is definitely a 'how can you like KISS but not like (blank)' song. There's nothing bad to be said about Black Diamond, a perfect rock and roll song. Perhaps because he's singing lead this is less of a drum workout than many of the songs on the debut. Almost certainly an accident, but the droning ending somehow seems like a glimpse into the next album.
Black Diamond is my favorite all-time KISS song. Love that acoustic intro with the the haromonies backing Paul, setting a vulnerable feeling to the song, that leads into the CRASH that turns the whole thing into a kickass rocker, with Peter's howling giving a sense of desperation to the number. Add all of Ace's parts and you get, quite frankly, a masterpiece in my humble opinion. And The Replacements' cover is phenomenal, love how Westerberg singsit. Don't love it quite as much as the original, but it is a keeper.
Huge KISS fan, not a big fan of Black Diamond. It's ok. I wouldn't put it on any personal "best of" compilations. To me, there's 8 songs that are better than Black Diamond on the debut.
Yet another absolute classic from the debut. I love the riff...it's just heavy as ****. And I like both studio and live versions. When I first got this album I had to buy the 8 track because that's all they could get in, and I didn't want to wait. When the end of this song came around I thought my 8 track player was seriously screwing up....or somehow that bat-winged demon had possessed it from the inside, and it was gonna start barfing tape at any second. Well, it survived. And I friggin loved it! My thoughts nowadays....why did they have Peter sing this? I always thought it would be great if Paul sang it all the way through.
This section of the song just before the drone is absolutely killer and Ace slays the guitar solo!! This is the section they should have extended and shortened the drone. Black Diamond, 100,000 years along with Strutter and Deuce are the highlights of the album for me. The album, in general, sounds a bit stiff in places but that's not the fault of the band, I think it's more the production and why most every version of these classics on Alive best the originals.
I agree. I think the drone was added purely to add some time to an album that was already very short (before the add of "Kissin' Time"). A more extended guitar workout would have been better for sure. I was just thinking today how short most KISS tunes are. Certainly on the first three albums no song is probably over 4 minutes except "She"? I'm asking because I'm too lazy to look right now. BD is really only about 3+.
I'm not sure why Paul let Peter sing this other than maybe he thought Criss's voice suited the song better? I do know that KISS modeled themselves as a grease paint faced hard rock The Beatles. It might be as simple as wanting all the singers to be involved and for them to be recognized as individual entities. It would only be later that Frehley would have enough confidence to sing himself. Just a guess though.
I love Peter's vocals on BD, they suit the song perfectly. And, as mentioned, they had a vision of having all of the members develop their own unique persona. And it worked in spades!!! Every KISS fan had a favorite member in the band, something you don't see very often because each and every one of them was pushed out front and center at one time or another. Anyhow, Peter's vocals have a rawness that were the icing on the cake for BD. I remember reading an article on KISS stating that they didn't utilize his excellent vocals enough...this was some time in the late 70s. I don't recall what I was reading but that statement has stuck with me.
My guess is Peter wanted a song to sing so Paul gave him that one. Maybe Peter already brought in a song or two and it wasn't up to scratch so they did the next best thing. I initially disliked the studio ending but as an adult, I grew to love it. Just hearing the sound stretch the way it does when slowed down is interesting to me. I want to hear how it actually ended slow and at regular speed. Is there a version out there of the actual take without it being slowed down? Kind of the same thing I'd like to hear Black Sabbath's War Pigs not sped up.
Peter is actually my favorite singer in KISS. Granted, he didn't sing a lot of my favorite songs, but he was my favorite singer out of the four.
I was just posting it for anyone who hasn't heard the demo, it wasn't a direct reply to your post although I would imagine the ending in the demo was how the song ended prior to the drone.
I think the thing with Black Diamond and the drone is that the song doesn't really have an ending. It's sort of the same as situation as they had with Acrobat and the longer version of 100,000 years that's on the demo. They were figuring out that some of things that worked onstage maybe didn't work as well on a record. With Black Diamond, when they do it live and they're banging away on that chord and the drums are going up and the flash pots are going off etc, it's cool and dramatic. But that's live. On the record they had to work out something to do to end it. So that's what they came up with and it sort of still doesn't work but what are you gonna do. Anyway as far as the song. The song is amazing. I don't know what else to say that hasn't been said. I guess one thing I'd add is I think the lyrics are really good. There's not much to them really, but what's there is pretty evocative. It paints a picture without really saying anything too specific.
