I can appreciate the effort in transcribing. Also I can totally believe that the 1875 building was falling down after 100 or so years.
Howard Scott interview: Interview with Howard Scott, May 1, 1998 - SPOKEdb There's not much specific to the studios that I thought was worthy of transcribing, but when Horning asks about material on Glenn Gould, Scott gets excited and tells her about Off The Record/On The Record. "It's absolutely fascinating". He also mentions this: From 44:29: Howard Scott: There's another one out, that's not out, that I have a copy of because, it was a promotional 15 minute video, called "Beh-", "A View From Be-", "A View-", "A Day-", "A View From The Microphone" I think it was called. I'll dig it out, I'll get it for you. It's 15 minutes. It's a pictorial, overview of recording. It has on it five Columbia artists: Lenny Bernstein. And that, you'll see, is split up because Lenny and I were sitting in a taxi cab being interviewed as we went to a recording session of Don Juan, and we were going through the score, and he was pointing out things. He wanted me to make sure I could accent, or make heard what he was looking for. *Very* informative. The second one was Mitch Miller. The second artist was Mitch conducting his chorus. Third one was Johnny Mathis in one of his first recording sessions. Fourth one was Duke Ellington playing "Poor Butterfly". And the fifth one was Bruno Walter doing the Beethoven Ninth. SSH: Oh, wow. And this is only 15 minutes long? HS: Yep, that's all it is. SSH: Now who put this out? HS: Columbia Records. As a promotion. SSH: So this is probably not something that's going to be easy to get. HS: You can't get it. [cross talk about availability] HS: I'm waiting to hear from Charlie Osgood. You know Charles Osgood, the Sunday guy who took, uh, does Sunday morning broadcasts on the road? And he took Charlie Kuralt's place? He and I are old friends, because he was one of my artists, as a narrator. He bought the 30th Street piano! Which is in this thing, Duke is playing it, and you know, you see it. And, I've called him, he may put me on one of his June shows to accentuate or accent the birth of the LP, for the recording techniques and stuff like that. I don't know if I'm going to get on that show or not, but I'm waiting to hear from him. -------------------------- Perhaps the sessions mentioned can help date A View From The Microphone.
Jim Fogelsong (1922-2013) started with Columbia in 1951. He later was with RCA & came to Nashville in 1970 with Dot. He was an important executive with Dot/ABC/MCA and Capitol & was inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame in 2004.
It appears the Ellington Session was March 24, 1958: Duke Ellington at the Bal Masque - Wikipedia Recordings with Duke Ellington - 1958 The Bruno Walter session may have been from early 1959, albeit not at 30th Street: "Beethoven: Symphony No. 9 (g) Emilia Cundari (S), Nell Rankin (A), Albert Da Costa (T), William Wilderman (Bar); Westminster Choir under Warren Martin; Columbia Symphony Orchestra Movements 1, 2, and 3: January 19, 21, 26, 29, 31, 1959; American Legion Hall. Last Movement: April 6 & 15, 1959; Hotel St. George • LP: Columbia M2L 264; Philips ABL 3351/2; Columbia (UK) BRG 72061/2; stereo: Columbia M2S 608; Philips SABL 169/70; Columbia (UK) 72061/2 • CD: CBS/Sony MK 42014; Sony SMK 64464" http://www.bwdiscography.com/ At the moment I'm not coming up with anything for the Bernstein session. And there's no specific information for the Miller or Mathis sessions. My guess is Scott was slightly off regarding Mathis: his first release was in 1956, so a 1958/9 session wouldn't be all that much later.
Second Howard Scott interview: Interview with Howard Scott, January 22, 1999 - SPOKEdb Lots about working with Buddy Graham, as well as a bit of discussion about On The Record. Horning asks about the guy sitting in the studio, but Scott doesn't seem to know who she is talking about. Starting around 24:26 the discussion drifts towards 30th Street: HS: We had an echo chamber. We were able to add echo- SSH: Was it the hallway echo chamber, or did you have a separate- HS: We used the stairway- SSH: The stairway, that's what I mean. HS: We used the stairwell at 799 Seventh Avenue as an echo chamber. By putting a speaker at the top and having microphones on different floors. Which we found out we could use. And they had a tape delay machine at CBS that we could also use to add...it was tape delay. That's all echo is, it's a delay. Fortunately, though, we had two great studios. We had Liederkranz Hall, which was torn down- SSH: They were co-existing, in the- HS: No, when we lost Liederkranz, we had to find a new hall. I don't know if it's of interest to you, but Bill Bachman, Vin Liebler, and I, and Dave Oppenheim went around New York looking for a place to record. And we found this church on 30th Street, it was a Greek Orthodox church, and I was the first person to make a record in that church. Bill and Vin, we came down and put a piano in it, and I played the piano for them to see what kind of delay we'd have and what the sound was. And of course it was *the* best hall there was. And, of course, 1969, the brilliant genius who was the president who was subsequently fired sold it- SSH: Who was that? HS: It was torn down to make apartments. I won't tell you. [cross talk] HS: The fact was that this guy was the president and they sold 30th Street. What was his name? I don't even remember his name. SSH: I can look it up. HS: You can. It was '69 I believe. And, then we had no recording hall. They had to use different places. And they don't have one now. They've never had one. Well, we used Carnegie, but the subway came through every 4 minutes, so you couldn't record there. And Lincoln Center was a disaster- SSH: Carnegie Hall Recording Corporation? HS: No, we brought our own, we brought our own portable stuff in. We brought our own equipment. We had two sets of road equipment. Which were run by Ed Thoreau [???] and Frank Bruno, that's why...talk to Frank. They had two sets of equipment. And one would go out to, say, Kansas City to record, Johnny Mathis, and the other would be in Philadelphia recording Ormandy. I mean we...they shipped them by railroad, and then eventually by plane. But it was a complete set of double machines, [inaudible], microphones- SSH: And where did they record, like live concerts- HS: In the halls! No, no no! We'd record in the halls! *After* the concerts. We used Severance Hall until that was fixed, when they ruined it. I went down to Masonic Auditorium, on 30th Street and Euclid Ave, was it? 30th- SSH: Somewhere around there. HS: Somewhere down in the 33rds. In Philadelphia we left the academy and went to the Broadwood Hotel. St. Louis we left the Kiel Auditorium and went to a Masonic hall. Chicago we left the Chicago Auditorium because they ruined that and we went to the Masonic Temple in Chicago. In Washington we used the Library of Congress. In New York we used Carnegie Hall or 30th Street, until that disappeared, and now they use, I guess, the old Manhattan Hotel. They have different venues in New York. But Lincoln Center isn't any good, for recording, although the music... SSH: Well when they started doing this road recording, was this after they lost their good studios- HS: No, they were always doing remotes. They're called remotes. They were always doing remotes. Particularly country and western. The country and western, the Johnny Cashes, the...all those gospel guys, the country guys were all on the road. ----------------------------- That goes until 28:26. There's some further discussion of remote recording after that. I haven't finished the whole interview yet. Interesting that Bill Bachman is a common name for testing out 30th Street, but Savory doesn't mention Scott, and Scott doesn't mention Savory. The stories of the stairway used as an echo chamber at 799 Seventh Ave are pretty similar too. I'm assuming the "brilliant genius who was the president" Scott mentions was Clive Davis, but of course 30th Street didn't close in 1969, and Davis wasn't at Columbia when it did close. Dan, have you studied the sales history? Is it possible the building was in fact *sold* around then, but Columbia kept renting it until 1981?
Ad(jutor) Theroux I have studied the sales history, and at the end it was sold in like early or middle '81 (that last Gould session was May 1981) and I've heard (but can't confirm) it initially sold for a song and then was resold quickly for way more money to the family that still owns it today, who built the condo building. Ray Moore led a charge to buy and preserve it but CBS was uninterested, as I understand it. One of the reasons for selling it was the neighbors not liking late night sessions, but both W.B. and I looking at our respective years (1962 and 1959) noticed LOTS of after-midnight sessions, so I was wondering why that became a big deal in 1981 or the years before then. Was it the guitar amps and drums? If that's all it was you'd think CBS could have just said no loud sessions after 9pm and still had plenty of opportunities. The feeling is that they were looking for any excuse to unload the real estate and to unload the vintage (and therefore expensive) engineers who populated it. Thanks for transcribing and posting those interviews. I'm amused that Savory talks about what a success the baffles that he designed were, but the reality of the pictures we have is that NO ONE used them and they were gone after the remodel in 1956. I guess we all blow our own horns.
I'm not sure if it's true, but the impression I got was it was when new neighbors moved in, that they started complaining. I'm not sure how many loud/rock sessions were actually held there. There's apparently also the condition of the building. As for the baffles go, there are some early photos with them in use, but perhaps they were only used for certain material. And possibly a wholesale change in technique came circa 1955 when major changes were made.
The Savory baffles were concave on one side with what looked like Masonite on the concave side so they were anything but absorptive or diffusive. Concave surfaces focus the sound in weird ways depending on if the source is anywhere close to the focal point of the concave part. They were clearly built to achieve an effect, and I think I can hear it in some Johnny Ray cuts; having a concave surface pointing at you who are making sound results in a hyper-real sort of sound or else some kind of goofy reflections, again depending on where you are relative to the focal point. It would sound like a strange delay which drastically changes the nature of the original sound. They would be a disaster with an orchestra if your goal was realism. Regarding rock sessions there, I saw multiple Link Wray sessions in 30th St just in 1959. His work was kind of strident, I would think, although perhaps someone will correct me. I think W.B. said he was known for "Rumble", and I got his 70's album Wray's Shack, Three Track (or something like that). Actually, looking it up, that's where it was recorded and it was just called Link Wray. Anyway, that album was noisy sounding, too, although it's really off-topic. Regarding the condition of the building, there was perhaps nothing wrong that money couldn't fix if there was an interest, but CBS execs were more interested in cash than culture, so Goddard's literary fancies were out as were any artists that didn't make money. There was a big Black Day at Black Rock shortly after or before the studio was sold where there were massive layoffs and cost-cutting after the excesses of the Goddard years, although there were greater excesses to come in the '80's.. But that's really off topic, too. There are numerous books that deal with that later era, including Walter Yetnikoff's bio and others.
His surname is mostly spelt "Foglesong." There is a little irony in his long career, though. Near the end of his run with Columbia/Epic, he produced what was left of The Ames Brothers at Epic after Ed Ames left to pursue a solo career. Later, at RCA, Foglesong produced Ed himself for some years - including sharing such credit with Joe Reisman on the singer/actor's biggest solo hit, "My Cup Runneth Over."
Amazingly enough, I have the original deed from 1981 here with me. The building was sold directly from CBS to what I think is a member of the family that still owns it today, and the deed is dated June 9, 1981. There is no sale amount listed but that is filed somewhere and public knowledge. The very earliest days of the studio are another story. The building was owned by WLIB radio, which was owned by the Post newspaper. I mention way at the beginning of the thread the sequence of events, but IIRC it was sold at fire sale prices by the Post in 1947 or so and there are permits in several individuals' or companies' names before CBS appears on the scene. What Luke wrote in the Savory transcription about CBS purchasing it to be television studios is exactly right, because I have the plans for it as two TV studios, but construction was never begun and they somehow decided to use it for an audio studio. Oh, and why I think of Johnny Ray using those baffles: I have a picture that I think I can't post showing him and Mitch and one of the baffles behind him, with him near the focal point, maybe.
Yes, that Johnny Ray photo is in a book. I believe it is on Google Books. Possibly earlier in this thread, but I can't check right now.
You're not alone. One of the sessions Foglesong produced in that 1962 book I processed, had the two letters likewise transposed. I guess that mistake is more common than either of us think.
Suddenly I have noticed your postings on a number of threads. Your knowledge is vast. I love this stuff!
Following the peak years of the late 70s, you could see leaner years coming, so its not surprising there were cuts. Then of course CD reversed the trend.
Here's the Johnnie Ray/Mitch Miller photo, as Google Books only seems to let you view pages a certain number of times: Also, to follow up on the Leonard Bernstein session Howard Scott was on the way to: From the second interview, starting around 44:00: Susan Schmidt Horning: Oh when you were talking to, um, uh, Leonard Bernstein in the cab, on the way to the session, what was it that you guys were deciding on? Howard Scott: Don Juan. SSH: I didn't mean the piece necessarily- HS: Strauss. SSH: -the things that you were doing about it was deciding on the performance, balance, levels- HS: Balance, sections- SSH: -and he was going off to the session, and you- HS: We were together, I was doing the session. SSH: You were together. HS: We were going to the St. George Hotel to do a recording session, and...before, as we were driving we were talking about what he was looking for in that particular work. Micing-wise, accent-wise, what sections, what melodies he wanted to hear, what accompaniments he didn't want to hear- SSH: So things that you would bring out- HS: But I would sit...I marked my score. If you remember, I was sitting there, and I was marking the score. So when we did that, I could say to Fred Plaut "In 8 bars I wanna hear those horns", or the flute, or more fiddles. SSH: Because you couldn't just setup and play it and have it come out. You had to use the equipment in the right way to get the right product in the end. HS: Oh sure. SSH: So you had to have a vision [inaudible] what you wanted. HS: Oh sure, sure. Well I always went to rehearsals if I could. I mean, I never went to a recording session unrehearsed, that the conductor was performing that day. Never, that I know of. None. I always at, was at least at a concert, or at least a rehearsal, and then a concert. Or a rehearsal and a couple of concerts. I mean we knew, I knew exactly what the conductor or the soloist was striving for. And did the best we could to realize it. Or have the ability to say at the time "that's the best he can do", you know. ----------------------------- Wiki mentions this for the Hotel St. George: "Columbia Records (now Sony Classical) used the Grand Ballroom at the Hotel St. George as a venue for several famous recordings by Leonard Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic. Among them are Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet Fantasy Overture, recorded on January 28, 1957; Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring, 1958; and Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue and An American in Paris, 1959." New York Philharmonic: The Authorized Recordings, 1917-2005 has a wealth of session details, and notes a number of sessions at the St. George in 1958/9 (along with plenty at 30th Street), but it appears the only performance of Don Juan with Bernstein conducting was from Philharmonic Hall in 1963 (released in 1966), and Howard Scott wasn't producing. I'm also not seeing any recordings of Strauss with Bernstein and Scott around that time. These seem like more likely candidates: STRAVINSKY, Igor Le Sacre du printemps (34:41) NYP, conductor Leonard Bernstein January 20, 1958. St. George Hotel, Brooklyn, N.Y. Released 1958 Columbia Records, producer Howard H. Scott RAVEL, Maurice Boléro (14:19) NYP, conductor Leonard Bernstein January 27, 1958. St. George Hotel, Brooklyn, N.Y. Released 1958 Columbia Records, producer Howard H. Scott BEETHOVEN, Ludwig Van Concerto for Violin and Orchestra in D, op. 61 (Kreisler cadenzas) (44:00) NYP, conductor Leonard Bernstein Isaac Stern, violin April 20, 1959, St. George Hotel, Brooklyn, N.Y. Released 1960 Columbia Records, producer Howard H. Scott RACHMANINOFF, Sergei Concerto for Piano and Orchestra No. 2 in C minor, op. 18 (36:00) NYP, conductor Leonard Bernstein Philippe Entremont, piano February 3, 1960. St. George Hotel, Brooklyn, N.Y. Released 1960 Columbia Records, producer Howard H. Scott I think there may be a few more that don't show up with a preview.
The parabolic reflector photo kind of looks to me like it might have a wool felt covering rather than Masonite. Every flat baffle/gobo I've seen has cloth on it and soft padding underneath.
Long before there was a recording studio in the building, my mom's high school graduation ceremony took place at the Hotel St. George. (isn't that interesting...)
This one looks harder than others. How much weight do you think Mitch is putting on it when he leans? That looks like a leaning pose rather than a no-weight resting pose. I'd believe thin felt over wood rather than felt over an open frame with more absorption in it. How many baffles have you seen that are convex regardless of construction? My bet is zero, because convex is needlessly complex if you are putting a soft face on them. Square or rectangular and flat, as we see in infinite photos in later years, works fine and are way easier to build, move, and store.
That's pretty cool, but understand that there was no "studio" in there, it was a big ballroom with a nice sound, apparently, with recording gear that came in for the session and went away after the session. As a nice big ballroom, it could be booked for other events like graduations or whatever, like any other space available for rent. 30th St and other places like that would not be available for such functions. As I understand it, which may not be very far.
