History of CBS Records 30th Street Studio NYC (many pictures)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DMortensen, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I'm not quite sure exactly what I see! Certainly there are shadows of the towers, and the front central gable we know has a sharp, peaked roof we can see. But I'm not sure if I see a sharp peaked roof on the studio, or if there's a flat on top. And the angled studio corners - I'm not sure if we see roof sections polygons or shadows in some cases. I would expect the studio corners at the NE & NW outside of the building to be full right angles to allow storage spaces and simplify construction, but they don't look like that in the photo.

    If the roof flatten at the 50 ft. height, that would conform to the 50 ft. height mentioned and retain what I see in truss photos. Skylights are also mentioned in the building permit.

    All conjecture at this point!
     
  2. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    When we get together I'll point things out to you in the aerial pictures. You know that the reason they are always tilted to the right is because the street grid is off by that much? North is pretty much at the top of the pictures.

    Edit: Somehow this got posted before I intended.

    I see a peaked roof over the studio portion running parallel to the street. Not sure what is going on at either end, although my conjecture as mentioned earlier is that it doesn't go to a vertical end wall like the face of the church shows above the rose window.

    Unedited: I'm in the airport now (United Club, sweet! Eating their food and using their electricity) and will post for a little while. Planned in some dead time today.
     
  3. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    I think you did mention this, and am glad you wrote it here so it's preserved for posterity, and am honored that you learned something when we were together. I really did, too. You are a fun guy to talk to when getting down to details, as you've shown in this thread and elsewhere.

    And when I need a color or typeface consultant, you are who I will call. For everyone else's benefit, W.B. really knows his colors and typefaces and can probably identify anything.
     
  4. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    I might add the color knowledge is as much with CMYK tint and halftone % combinations as with Pantone spot colors.
     
  5. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    So for the last 45 minutes (since my last post) I've been going through the first couple boxes of Plaut pictures looking specifically for mixers. The collection is very roughly chronological except when it's not, so these are early on.

    Here are a couple pictures of Liederkranz Hall, first with the execrable Charles O'Connell and just showing a portion of a mixer

    [​IMG]

    and another with a fellow who might be an engineer/control man and a little better view of the mixer

    [​IMG]

    Definitely a different mixer than the one in early 30th Street.

    Here are parts of that one:

    First with Goddard and conductor Lehman Engel

    [​IMG]

    Not sure who that is in the background; looks like Poulenc but he would not be there doing that.

    Last is a fellow that might be a guy who Art Kendy identified the other day as Ben Ehrnhalt, or maybe not. We've seen him before.

    [​IMG]

    Hmmm, those knobs don't correspond with any of the mixers.

    And now I really need to go. Plane coming soon and I need to eat more.
     
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  6. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Dan (and all others who are following this thread), but I wanted to pass this along. I'm guessing you guys are aware that there are actual COLUMBIA catalogs, which log all of their releases? I was looking for something interesting to borrow from the local library and I found that there were a bunch of volumes of these catalogs to borrow and look at. I honestly wasn't sure just what was going to arrive, but I requested two catalogs, one from February 1961 and Summer 1966. What showed up are two spiral bound catalogs, which look much like a BEAR FAMILY box set's song information. The catalog from 1961 has listings for 12" long playing releases, all broken down to their catalog number series (OL, SL, ML, C2L, CL, HL, etc), along with extended play releases, 4-20000 series, Stereophonic Tapes, 4-Track Stereo Tapes and other series, which were available at that time. Each title listed had the songs listed, but no information about studios or takes used.

    The Summer 1966 is double the size of the February 1961 catalog. This volume was listed much easier to view in columns, for buyers to see each title listed with song titles, catalog number, along with info on whether or not it was available in mono or stereo and on tape, reel or cart. There was also a price list showing what catalog code equaled what selling price.

    Just a little sidebar post here, but it is still a part of the "research" side of things and I just thought that you guys would appreciate it?
     
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  7. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for this. No, I was not aware there were such things but am not surprised they exist; they want to sell their stuff and should make it easy for people to see what they might want to buy. That part of the equation is somewhat of a mystery to me.

    Glad you looked at them; from what I can tell from what you wrote, though, I don't see how that helps us in our searches to discover what was done where and when. Beyond the year the recording was released and what format it's in, what does this tell us? Am I missing something? Still a little foggy after travels.

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Side note: Gorgeous RCA LC1a in the shots above. A contemporary photo of a cosmetically-different pair:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
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  9. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    They probably wouldn't offer much directly, but could offer a starting place for further research. I.e., identifying all Broadway releases, any other material likely recorded at 30th Street, etc. They could also be an aid when trying to identify what album certain photos are associated with.
     
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  10. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I believe that lukpac in post #1456 has the right idea of just what worth those catalogs might hold for your research.
     
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  11. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    I misunderstood a comment from Art and he says this is not Ben Ehrnhalt.

    Please correct your programs.
     
  12. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    Art, however, suggested that Mr. Ehrnhalt was the 'BE' cited as cutting engineer on some LP's around the 1960's-early '70's timeframe, as seen on lacquer cutting card files I studied while assisting on that one day in terms of the 1962 appointment book . . .
     
  13. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Hi Everyone,

    Sorry for the absence. Upon coming home I was first too pooped to work and then had to do a bunch of stuff that needed doing after a month and then was swamped with work. The good part of the latter is that I had a couple long days of enforced idleness and was able to make further progress on the Plaut collection pictures that I gathered a year and a half ago. By the end of a very long day I am now about half a box to completion in the ID'ing and picture-fixing. To reiterate, that's just shy of 8,000 pictures collected on that trip, and after a quick look just now, it looks like there's about 150 pictures left in that half box. So that feels pretty good to be close to one goal.

    There were a few interesting pictures in the four boxes I went though last weekend, and here's the first post of those, which will be mostly about studio windows.

    In the new control room, we see distant shots of it as being one rectangular window. You can look back in the thread to find those. Here's one looking through the window into the studio:

    [​IMG]

    You can't tell from this shot but it's Franz Allers conducting male and female choruses and an orchestra. The only thing I can find is his name and I recognize Thomas Z. Shepard in many shots, but no idea what session it is. I'll post more from it later because there are people who look familiar but I can't quite place them.

    It looks like there are two pieces of glass, spaced about a foot apart, one on the studio side and one on the control room side. That makes sense, because that's one way of getting acoustic isolation with glass, which is a terrible sound isolator. (Another is to have the two pieces of glass be different thicknesses, but we can't tell that from the pictures.)

    What are those vertical lines on each piece of glass? Looking at another picture

    [​IMG]

    we can see that each side of the glass (studio and control room) is actually two pieces of glass (have to look closer at other pictures to see if there are more than that) with some kind of clear plastic or glass coupler spanning the joint between them, and probably some kind of screws going through the coupler and both pieces of glass to tie them together.

    This makes sense because two smaller pieces of glass are easier to handle and install than one huge one, but I'd never given it much thought. So that was interesting to clearly see.

    We've been talking in the thread about Studio D and the window on the West side of the new control room which was there and then wasn't there at some point. This is a picture of the harpsichordist Igor Kipnis standing close to that window, with the photographer (presumably Fred) standing close to him.

    [​IMG]

    I cropped it down so it's more square and a little magnified, and we can see behind him through the window into the adjacent space, and there is a door on the other side of that space. At least, I think I see a propped open door and not a window, but will have to look more for pics like that and sort them together so we can compare to glean the details.

    This next one from the same series

    [​IMG]

    is more to our left and shows how the wall treatment is going upward at an angle to the wall rather than in the plane of the wall, which is good because it reduces flutter echo where sound bounces off one straight wall to the opposite straight wall where it bounces off and heads for the opposite wall to repeat and repeat and repeat the process until the energy is reduced enough that it's not heard anymore. Having the walls at angles to each other breaks up the circular cycle and makes it so you only hear one reflection, and the acoustic treatment diminishes the amplitude of that first reflection. There is an interesting discussion about the effectiveness of the acoustic tile they used in those days compared to the Sonex and other treatments we have today, but they used what existed then. So that is one factor of why the control room sounded nice, and this picture clearly shows it.

    Last for this post is another picture of that window with two people who I'd like to identify but can't

    [​IMG]

    There are a number of pictures of her; the next post will have a better one. There is only this picture of him, I think; he looks like a composer but I can't place him. Can you?

    I'm happy to say that these pictures are from MSS 52, The Frederick and Rose Plaut Papers in the Irving S. Gilmore Music Library of Yale University, gathered with the help of Richard Boursey and Emily Ferrigno, wonderful librarians.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
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  14. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Hey, I already posted another version of the window-coupling shot in post 1302 but didn't register the coupler, as well as some other pics from the same session of people I don't know. Nobody ID'd them that I recall so I won't be posting those pictures again. Found that while looking for a post with the wording of the Plaut collection credit that I like to use.

    Here's another shot of the beautiful Asian woman smiling engagingly

    [​IMG]

    Any ideas?

    The bearded guy that we can almost see is in a several pictures from the era at different sessions, which makes me think he might be a producer or tape op or something. Doesn't seem to be a control man. Can't tell if it's Bob Waller he's talking to; looking again, it actually is, because Bob is in other pictures wearing a muted plaid shirt and I think in this picture the guy is wearing a muted plaid shirt just like it. Hmmm, this is taking an interesting turn:

    [​IMG]

    This picture was in the same folder and in the sequence of the picture above. If it is indeed Bob Waller in the first picture, then this must be a shot inside the tape machine room at 30th St!!! How about that???

    I had been under the impression, and several people I'd showed it to were, too, that it was over in Studio B or E but this means it has to be in the main room at 30th St.

    This is a shot looking into the doorway of the tape machine room

    [​IMG]

    showing the sort-of counter that makes up the left side of that door opening (there is no actual door) which a lot of people are pictured leaning upon.

    That's Pinchas Zukerman on the left and Isaac Stern on the right. No idea who is visible above the counter, or what that pile of stuff is on the right in the doorway.

    Lastly, here are a couple of pictures of an interesting looking guy, sort of looking like a cross between Jeff Bridges and Ethan Hawke?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Any idea who he is?
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  15. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    A few things:

    1) That doesn't look like the same shirt to me. The shirt in the first photo is more typical plaid, while the shirt in the second photo is more of a tighter checker pattern.

    2) It's not clear to me that those are the same person. The hair line appears to be quite different, but based on the equipment and machines, I would guess they are from roughly around the same time (mid '60s).

    3) I'm not entirely sure if either of those people is Bob Waller. The first photo isn't too clear, and I'm not sure the second person is Waller.

    4) I wouldn't suspect that was from 49 E 52nd Street, for various reasons.

    5) I guess we're looking at the northeast corner of the machine room? And the door is to a closet (?) between the studio and the machine room, presumably later also accessible from the control room (based on the door seen in Company)? Here's looking at the southeast corner of the machine room:

    [​IMG]

    The photo you just posted must be slightly later, after they upgraded from 3-track to 4-track.
     
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  16. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Your points 1 and 2 are certainly reasonable doubts; I hoped the hair was ambiguous enough and similar enough that it could be the same person combed/disheveled differently, and the shirt pattern was made ambiguous by the picture or lighting.

    I'm willing to put money on that being Bob Waller in the second picture; there are a number of pictures of him in later life in the collection and he inflated as we all do as he got older. To my eye, he has a very empathetic look to him (him being empathetic) that I feel like I can pick out of a crowd. I'll do a timeline of him in photos since I can sort that way.

    You are correct about the orientations of both those pictures of the machine room, if that's indeed what it is.

    What do you suppose is going on inside that doorway in the Waller/not Waller picture? Here it is again so nobody has to scroll up:

    [​IMG]

    It looks to me like there is a pile of tape boxes (1/4"?) sitting on a stool blocking access to the space, and that the access would only be about a foot or so deep behind the door and in front of what looks like a counter. The lack of depth means that it is not some kind of passageway to the door inside the control room - there wouldn't be space to walk.

    What are those things on the wall inside the door? The nearest one looks like it could be some kind of soap dispenser, the other one looks like the edge of a paper towel dispenser. Was that a sink behind a door? And not a tape storage room?

    Again, both those first two pictures in that post were in the same folder, along with another one of the tape machine room and Waller nearly identical to the one in this post.

    The fact that they were in the same folder is not proof of similar chronology, as it seems to me that the last boxes and folders in the collection were kind of catch-all, where the librarians/curator(s) put anything where they couldn't figure out where else to put it. There was one folder that had pictures from late 30th St. as well as Liederkranz Hall that were pre-30th St., and another folder that had pictures of Fred and Rose from their time in Paris (they moved to America in 1940).

    My post #1302 has more pictures from this same folder/session. If that helps.
     
  17. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    It's possible that the second photo is Waller, but I'd have to see some later photos of him.

    Soap dispenser? I would put money on that being a pencil sharpener. There's not really enough in the photo for me to start guessing on what else is there. But a closet/storage space of some sort seems likely.

    As noted, I would guess they are from roughly around the same time (if not the same day), which is why I *don't* think the figures seen in the photos are the same person.
     
  18. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    In the machine room picture Lukpac posted above, the man on the right was ID'd as Jim Davis by people who should know.

    This was also identified as Jim Davis on the left, who was head of studio maintenance at some point, and who I think is Bob Waller on the right. The electronics on the tape machine on the left would indicate that it is later than the posted pics we're arguing about, right?

    [​IMG]

    Waller clearly looks like himself to me, albeit thicker.

    Here's a change of subject: what is this instrument?

    [​IMG]

    Some kind of portable pump organ ? Is the thing that looks like a drawer just under the keyboard the pump part?

    It's part of an ensemble of early instruments

    [​IMG]

    and is visible in the center just in front of the standing guy in back. But he looks to be standing behind it rather than playing it, since the large pipes are to our left and his right. At first I thought the picture was reversed, but the cello player is fingering the neck with his left hand and the piano with cover in the background looks right. Odd. Why would that keyboard be facing away from the conductor?

    The index says this might be Noah Greenberg and the New York Pro Musica, but is not sure and the pictures I could find were ambivalent at best about whether that was Mr. Greenberg or not.

    Here's one more unenlightening picture of the group, and a still life shot of some of their instruments

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Maybe the name of that little organ will narrow down the recording session and group.

    Oh, and I like "pencil sharpener" for that thing on the wall.
     
  19. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I'd buy that (Waller?) as the same guy in the second photo above.

    And yes, later. Ampex 440-8 machine, as seen in Company. In another ill-fitting rack.
     
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  20. terry toww

    terry toww Forum Resident

    Location:
    Western Samoa
    Bottom photos are Antonio Carlos Jobim. Recording 'Stone Flower'.
     
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  21. terry toww

    terry toww Forum Resident

    Location:
    Western Samoa
    Sorry, not Stone Flower, 'Urubu'
     
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  22. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    Haha! Your comments are funny.

    It did take me a split second to recognise him, but that's Antonio Carlos Jobim.

    (That should make it easy to pin down the year the pictures were taken, as I don't think Jobim was often in that studio. Although I can't find any info online of any sessions he attended there. Judging by the facial hair, however, this is from the early '70s probably, or very late '60s.)
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
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  23. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    Ha. Somehow your comments hadn't yet shown up when I wrote mine. "Urubu", never heard of that album before. Recorded October 16–23, 1975 for Warner Bros.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
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  24. mdr30

    mdr30 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gothenburg, Sweden
    Urubu is a magnificent record, with wonderful instrumental tracks orchestrated by Claus Ogerman. Listen to the three-dimensional sound effects!
     
  25. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    A few things:

    1) That's not a cello, that's a viol, also known as a viola da gamba. Note there are 6 strings and frets.

    2) According to this site, New York Pro Musica recorded 3 albums for Columbia, apparently all in 1954. Of the 3 listed, only The Music of Salamone Rossi, Hebreo de Mantua seems like it could correspond with what is seen in the photos.

    Ruth Daigon (soprano), Jean Hakes (soprano), Russell Oberlin (counter-tenor), Charles Bressler (tenor), Arthus Squires (tenor), Brayton Lewis (bass), Sonia Monosoff (violin), Bernard Krainis (recorder), Seymour Barab (viola da gamba), Paul Maynard (harpsichord)] & Lois Roman (soprano), Malcolm Norton (baritone)
    Noah Greenberg, dir.

    [​IMG]

    Additional photos and commentary in the next post.
     

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