Pioneer's new PLX-1000 Turntable

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by bluelips, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Prices for used SL-1200s have gotten way out of control. There is no way to find one around where I live that is either (1) not destroyed or (2) repaired/refurbished and costing less than $700-900. I would happily buy the Pioneer if I were looking for a DD table with removable head shell over a used machine. I know the SL-1200 has attained legendary status, but I find some of the current anti-China and anti-Taiwan manufacturing thing among hobbyists off-putting. When I was a kid that's how Americans felt about Japanese manufacturing, which was still, in the 60s and early 70s, widely considered to be junk-in-general and it was sort of thought to be vaguely unpatriotic to purchase Japanese-made products. Once Honda and Toyota started to sell cars in the US, I knew plenty of folks who dismissed them out of hand, and it took many years for those makes to become known as reliable and solidly-built. Fast forward to 2017 and Japanese manufacturing is considered world-class in several areas. China has made great strides in quality manufacturing in a short span of time. There are now millions of these Chinese turntables out in the real world, and it's possible that 30 years from now plenty of them will still be running. Time will tell. There is no reason to believe that this Pioneer deck will not work well and provide great value for a long time to come.
     
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  2. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I'm not anti-China manufacturing. My amp and speakers are made in China, as are many other products I own. My issue is that there are certain small details on these that the manufacturers need to pay closer attention to. I could say the same thing about certain European turntable manufacturers. I would also agree that the price for used 1200s is out of control in many U.S. cities. That doesn't mean you can't still pick up some other type of Japanese DD table for a reasonable price.

    Re: Anti-Japanese sentiments w/r/t manufacturing. I remember that well as it continued into the 80s and even the 90s for certain things.
     
    H8SLKC likes this.
  3. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    They could easily expand to include mods to these Pioneer decks. Businesses must adapt or fail, especially those that cater to a niche market. Regardless of whether it's true, he could claim the Technics are superior and sell them as his "premium" offering. He could offer the same mods for the Pioneer decks with the disclaimer that they still don't compare to his beloved 1200s.

    This is a classic example of brand loyalty clouding one's judgment. It usually applies to the consumer, but sometimes business owners shoot their self in the foot with the same mentality.
     
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  4. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lakeland, FL
    It fits and works just. fine. Kevin has a really bad anti PLX-1000 bias. If he was more business saavy, he'd devolop mods for it instead of trashing it.
     
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  5. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Or how about having a new website made that doesn't look like it's straight out of 1995.
     
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  6. rtrt

    rtrt Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Agree with this and many more posts over last day or 2.

    I'd be interested in an armboard / mount - not sure if he does one for the 1200 in any case.

    I do know that the mounting holes are different, so its not a straight use a sl1200 variant on the plx, but if you have the drawings and manufacturing capability - it'd be very straightforward to produce a plx-1000 version
     
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  7. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Dave Cawley of Sound Hi-Fi in the UK long ago picked this up and improved vastly on the KAB mods. There are now several others in the mod game that offer arm boards power supplies and improved bearings/platters.
     
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  8. rtrt

    rtrt Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I think (without any evidence mind you) that the major hurdle is that the mod producers don't see a large enough market in the plx.

    I suspect that plenty have been sold, but many more to the pro market than to users like us - if true then maybe they're right to be cautious.

    Obviously one way to minimise risk, is to simply market an existing product - say something like the kab damper that appears to need no changes to just work.

    I wonder if the new 1200G is going to make it harder too - based on its higher price I'm assuming that it'll be a better performer than the plx and so some of the plx users who want a 'better/improved plx' - wouldn't now look to upgrade parts/aspects of their plx - they'd just sell on and upgrade to a 1200G.

    In any case for me - whilst I occasionally have a look around for a replacement armboard for my plx - I have to say that i'm very happy with the table & its arm right now.

    I've really just got an itch to try an audiomods and/ or designbuildlisten arm upgrade. Which means that I have no intention of going for the 1200G - as i'd only want to do the same swap there and i'd be £6-800 worse off before I even started the arm swap!
     
    H8SLKC likes this.
  9. Lymbo

    Lymbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Huntsville, AL
    I have a PLX-1000 with the KAB fluid damper and Isonoe footers. I see no reason for any turntable upgrades. I've owned a $2,300 turntable with a $1,000 cartridge (VPI Classic and Dynavector 20x2L) and a modded Rega RP6 with various cartridges used and quite frankly, I'm plenty pleased with my PLX-1000. I've been on the turntable merry-go-roumd and have now stepped off. I've found my turntable/cartridge sweet spot. I don't need or want to spend anymore.


    [​IMG]
     
  10. Nubben

    Nubben Well-Known Member

    Location:
    London, UK
    Hi All,

    Was wondering if someone could help with a compliance query on the PLX.

    Have just put a Nagaoka MP-500 (8 g) on a Jelco HS-20 (12 g) headshell on the PLX. Sound slightly bombastic but have not played around with the SRA yet.

    Have been trying to figure out whether this is a good match but have not been able to figure it out. Aargh!

    Would someone be able to help?

    Many thanks.

    Regards
    Nubben
     
  11. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    It is not. He supports and maintains what he does, because Technics/Panasonic supports the SL-1200. It is built to a quality, a scaled down SP series rather than a upmarket lesser item. Quality costs less over time. The Pioneer is good for it's price point, but I'd take the Technics over many years as you can keep one operational to high standard as it was built to be maintainable and service friendly. With the support to back it up. KAB is a professional oriented company, who serves the needs of archivists, music lovers, and those in need of dependable solutions. Not a audiophile at all else company. What you need and what many need are different. I like the Pioneer for the market it serves. It has good features. But I want to see how they age, how maintainable they are long term, how they're supported before I spend that much money on it. I know how my SP-25 will perform with age, what I need to do to keep it alive, I know the same about the SL-1200 models. So my Pioneer recommendation is a conditional one.
     
  12. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I disagree. He dismissed the Pioneer based on a couple youtube videos. A couple of his mods fit the Pioneer without alteration. Why not market them to the Pioneer crowd? Is it really going to infringe on his sales of used Technics decks?
     
    HiFi Guy likes this.
  13. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lakeland, FL
    It's almost as if he takes the Pioneer as an affront against the Technics. His hatred of the Pioneer borders on irrational, expecially considering he's not seen or used one.
     
  14. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    He doesn't even sell used 1200's. He used to sell new ones up to the point they were discontinued, and his website alludes to selling used 1200's at a future point, but it doesn't seem to have happened. I think its ultimately about him being the Pope of the Technics religion, and not wanting to engage in blasphemy.

    Note he's an absolutely fantastic guy. When I sold my Technics (to somebody else) I asked him if he had any advice on shipping it and he basically wrote me a novel on the exact sized boxes to use, how to pack things, etc.
     
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  15. Black Jack

    Black Jack New Member

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    i've just got a mint set of technics mk2, to compare them to the pioneers with regards to pitch control and quality, if i like the digital pitches on the pioneers better, i may sell both sets and get the new Technics 1210 GR decks.
     
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  16. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    My take on it is that, like lots around various turntable-related forums, he heard it's Hanpin built and automatically assumes it's crap without actually trying one. I seem to recall someone mentioning asking Kevin about Hanpins and he said he tried one a few years ago and found it was no good, so he assumes the Pioneer is the same. those of us who own one, know that's nonsense!
     
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  17. Black Jack

    Black Jack New Member

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    The pioneers are some of the nicest turntables i've owned and i've owned a few, i even prefer them to the mk2s, just because of their new features, but classic feel, and hanpin build about 90% of dj standard turntables, they are now an industry standard, their motors are excellent, and at 0.01 wow and flutter and technics moving to digital pitches, they are good decks for the money you spend...i would like to try the new Denon VL12 ones just to see how they feel to mix on...also keen on getting the new technics GR
     
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  18. Black Jack

    Black Jack New Member

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    so i got a mint condition Technics 1210 MK2 and set it up with my Pioneer PLX-1000. Blown away by how good it is compared the Pioneer...it is an absolute tank...the Pioneer is great, but just does not cut it, constantly riding the pitch and when you do, it's increments just don't match the Technics...i've put both my Pioneers up for sale and will get another mint 1210...maybe MK3D, or MK5G...or just another MK2.
     
  19. rebellovw

    rebellovw Forum Resident

    Location:
    hell
    I think it says a lot about Kevin. He could have easily jumped on the hanpin wagon but never did. He is one of my favorite people in the business. Technics should have been loyal to Kevin vs that wrongly opinionated Fremer.
     
  20. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    That's right. He is a great guy. I've spoken to him many times about turntables, and audio in general. He does not sell used SL-1200's. He just firmly believes it's a superior product to the Pioneer, rightly or wrongly. I didn't really question him on why. He also believes—believe it or not—that digital is superior to analog, but if one must use a turntable, the SL-1200 is superior to any belt-driven turntable for its laboratory-grade speed stablitly. He also dismisses the audiophile claim that the motor ever exhibited "cogging." I'm not sure if he has tried the new SL-1200...he hadn't the last time I talked with him, but that was last summer.

    Sorry about going a bit OT, but there were a few posts about KAB before mine. :hide:
     
  21. rebellovw

    rebellovw Forum Resident

    Location:
    hell
    I agree completely with him in regards to the cogging - just BS. I've listened to my M5G endless times as compared with my VPI - no cogging at all. Story made up by Fremer.
     
  22. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    Kevin thinks Technics marketed the new motor the way they did just because of Fremer's past criticism. In any event, I suppose it worked because Michael Fremer gave the new SL-1200G quite a good review.
     
  23. rebellovw

    rebellovw Forum Resident

    Location:
    hell
    I agree 100% with that. All that I want is the truth and unfortunately in the turntable business you cannot find it w/o buying expensive turntables. Fremer said by design - it will cog w/o witnessing it cog. Technics marketing came out and said - we improved the cogging - now he likes it - wow what a surprise. Very frustrating for a consumer. I had to purchase a VPI classsic to prove him wrong. The only real thing you will see are some plots that show the SP10 slightly better than the sl1200 - but nothing noticeable to the human ear. Oh well - that is what we have.
     
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  24. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    How does the VPI Classic compare to your SL-1200 when running the same cartridge?
     
  25. rebellovw

    rebellovw Forum Resident

    Location:
    hell
    My M5G handles my top of the line cart best. I bought a Grado Reference Master about 3 years ago. At first it was on my technics - perfect - then I moved it to my Classic - great but not as good - on my Classic it produced a light motor noise - nothing major - but after time I felt it should be on the Technics since it performed best there.

    I love both tables and still alternate between the two. I feel the folks that say one is better than the other simply do not know how to set up a table properly. I've actually helped another member here with a Project and had them like that table vs upgrading - so setup of the table is critical.

    For people that blatantly say one table is better than another - I give '0' credit as I listened to them and they were wrong.
     
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